**Official** West Indies in England Thread

[Craig]

Unless it is a green top, or it is substandard and will favour the bowler's Lara should bat first.

To me if you can't bat under grey clouds with the ball moving about for say 30 minutes, then quite frankly you don't deserve to be batting at Test level.

 

[roseboy64]

Lara shouldn't chide Best.It's because of the match situation at that point he may have to talk to him and say that you can't do what the opposition says and better to prevent that don't go around mouthing off when you're bowling so they'll have a reason to do that.

 

[garage flower]

Lara shouldn't chide Best.It's because of the match situation at that point he may have to talk to him and say that you can't do what the opposition says and better to prevent that don't go around mouthing off when you're bowling so they'll have a reason to do that.

I disagree. I think Best and the other tailenders (Pedro, Fidel) were disgracefully irresponsible (just analyse their dismissals in both innings) and deserve an absolute rocket, whether it be from Lara or the coach. I would think they've already had one from Chanderpaul.

 

[Adamc]

I disagree. I think Best and the other tailenders (Pedro, Fidel) were disgracefully irresponsible (just analyse their dismissals in both innings) and deserve an absolute rocket, whether it be from Lara or the coach. I would think they've already had one from Chanderpaul.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but... Pedro and Fidel?!?!? Those two (no.'s 10 and 11!) lasted 38 and 24 balls respectively, which is twice as much as many of the more experienced batsmen lasted! Their batting in the first innings was clearly not good, but obviously the improved subtstantially in the second. They did the right thing and tried to defend, leave or play straight to virtually every ball. Their dismissals in the second innings were tailenders dismissals, not the result of recklessness or irresponsibility.

 

[garage flower]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but... Pedro and Fidel?!?!? Those two (no.'s 10 and 11!) lasted 38 and 24 balls respectively, which is twice as much as many of the more experienced batsmen lasted! Their batting in the first innings was clearly not good, but obviously the improved subtstantially in the second. They did the right thing and tried to defend, leave or play straight to virtually every ball. Their dismissals in the second innings were tailenders dismissals, not the result of recklessness or irresponsibility.

I'm in a rush Adam, so can't dwell on this, but you're right. I only saw Fidel and Pedro's 1st inns dismissals and they were shockers. With regard to the 2nd inns, what kind of shots did they get out to (genuine question)? Regardless of the number of balls they's blocked, I'd still be very disappointed if they played similarly expansive shots. Either way, it shouldn't take them an innings to learn play within their limitations and as per the team's requirements. If the 3 players in question had hung around for an extra hour combined, then that time, together with the additional runs added, could have made a real difference.

 

[Adamc]

I'm in a rush Adam, so can't dwell on this, but you're right. I only saw Fidel and Pedro's 1st inns dismissals and they were shockers. With regard to the 2nd inns, what kind of shots did they get out to (genuine question)? Regardless of the number of balls they's blocked, I'd still be very disappointed if they played similarly expansive shots. Either way, it shouldn't take them an innings to learn play within their limitations and as per the team's requirements. If the 3 players in question had hung around for an extra hour combined, then that time, together with the additional runs added, could have made a real difference.

Pedro: leaned forward to play the spinner, foot was raised above the line and was stumped - simple tailenders' mistake. Wasn't an expansive shot at all, certainly nothing like Best's dismissal.
Fidel: good line and length ball from Flintoff, played a straight bat and edged to slips.

If all the WI batsmen could learn from there mistakes as quickly as those two did, they would not have as many problems as they do. I don't think you can realistically expect too much more from the tailenders - to survive 38 and 24 balls respectively is exceptional for no.'s 10 and 11.

 

[badgerhair]

Pedro: leaned forward to play the spinner, foot was raised above the line and was stumped - simple tailenders' mistake. Wasn't an expansive shot at all, certainly nothing like Best's dismissal.
Fidel: good line and length ball from Flintoff, played a straight bat and edged to slips.

If all the WI batsmen could learn from there mistakes as quickly as those two did, they would not have as many problems as they do. I don't think you can realistically expect too much more from the tailenders - to survive 38 and 24 balls respectively is exceptional for no.'s 10 and 11.

I think it's a bit much to call 38 and 24 balls *exceptional* for ten-jack.

I don't think it's unreasonable to make 20 balls a basic expectation for those guys. They won't always make it, but they ought to have at least that in their mind as their target when they walk out.

I thought Collins and Edwards did the job that their captain would have wanted - which is worthy of praise in this WI side when so few of the batsmen measure up to it.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes but lara actually had a plan to his shot, it just didnt come off Best was just a mindless hoik manly due to Flintoff getting to him.

Though, of Best and Lara, which one do you think had the legitimate chance of saving the game for the West Indies? Regarding Lara's "plan", which team had the legitimate chance of winning the game?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

That misses the point. The point is, that the obvious fault that was getting him out regularly during the home series and which he appeared to have worked on and largely corrected since, is still very much there. The England bowlers are aware of it and are good enough to exploit it and so it's unlikely that Sarwan will make many useful contributions during this series until he can begin to make the necessary adjustments.

Some would have said the exact same thing about Gayle before this tour and he's done pretty well in his time at the crease so far. Even if you have a good plan for a given batsman, you're not guaranteed to get him out at all and certainly not always cheaply.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

To me if you can't bat under grey clouds with the ball moving about for say 30 minutes, then quite frankly you don't deserve to be batting at Test level.

Say you're facing Holding, Marshall, Garner, Roberts under grey skies with the ball darting about and you lose 3 or 4 in the first 30 minutes, does that make those 3 or 4 substandard players? Batting at Test level is never easy, even if you're a Test class batsman.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I would think they've already had one from Chanderpaul.

Somehow I can't see Chanderpaul having yelled at them at all.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Pedro: leaned forward to play the spinner, foot was raised above the line and was stumped - simple tailenders' mistake. Wasn't an expansive shot at all, certainly nothing like Best's dismissal.

Pedro Collins pushed forward to swing Giles away from memory, not to play him defensively. It was an unnecessary and poor shot.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think it's a bit much to call 38 and 24 balls *exceptional* for ten-jack.

It's exceptional for a West Indian 10 and 11. Remember that we've had greats such as Walsh, King etc. gracing those positions in the past.

 

[roseboy64]

It's quite an improvement.West Indian tailenders have never had a reputation for sticking around.

 

[Craig]

Say you're facing Holding, Marshall, Garner, Roberts under grey skies with the ball darting about and you lose 3 or 4 in the first 30 minutes, does that make those 3 or 4 substandard players? Batting at Test level is never easy, even if you're a Test class batsman.

Depends how great the bowling was.

You will be surprised to see how many batsmen play half forward and nick the ball.

 

[Andre]

Depends how great the bowling was.

You will be surprised to see how many batsmen play half forward and nick the ball.

No you wouldn't, because if they are half forward they aren't in the right position.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Lawson and Bravo were quite good this morning and Collymore bowled well in his second spell. He was back to typical Collymore form though, beating the bat a fair few times and then getting an edge that fell short of the slips.

 

[chris.hinton]

Key is Out.... Collins has got a Wicket

 

[Mister Wright]

Vaughan gone to a caught and bowled. A juggled catch by Bravo. West Indies in not that bad of a position. England 3-151.

 

[roseboy64]

Good bowling in this session.Hope they can improve on it though.