***Official*** West Indies in Australia

[SquidAU]

Oh, it must be Aussie bashing time......

Didn't know it was that time of year again!

 

[Jono]

If it was any other team who appealed like that (not the fact that they are excessively appealing, but the fashion they are doing it in, ie. putting immense pressure on the umpires) I bet you'd be laying into them just like the rest.

Seriously, just look at Lee's lbw appeal earlier today when he stormed down the wicket appealing and was past the batsman when it was turned down. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Fantastic effort from everyone today. Lara put his head down and should have had a lot more than he did. Pretty poor decision. Bravo and Ramdin did exactly as I knew they could, and even Powell and Edwards looked to be trying. Samuels tried his best, but appeared to be struggling with his injury at times.

All in all, this one day has restored a load of pride by simply showing what sort of cricketers are the future of the West Indies.

 

[SquidAU]

If it was any other team who appealed like that (not the fact that they are excessively appealing, but the fashion they are doing it in, ie. putting immense pressure on the umpires) I bet you'd be laying into them just like the rest.

Seriously, just look at Lee's lbw appeal earlier today when he stormed down the wicket appealing and was past the batsman when it was turned down. That's just ridiculous.

Every team over appeals, every team grumbles about decisions......it's not just Australians. Do you really think no other team puts pressure on the umpires?

It's part of the game now. The Poms do it, Pakistan do it, South Africa do it......especially at home.

Some people here make the Aussie cricket team seem to be the epitomy of evil in the sport.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

How do you know he knows? We're not having this ridiculous argument again are we? Why don't you trot off and start a thread called 'Reasons I Dislike Some of the Aussies - Disguised as Facts' and get it over and done with.

To be fair, with some of the appeals that Gilchrist and Warne go up for, they'd have to be totally oblivious to the rules of the game to think that they're actually out. They say Warne will never die wondering and Gilchrist tends to be the same when he's bowling.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Every team over appeals, every team grumbles about decisions......it's not just Australians. Do you really think no other team puts pressure on the umpires?

It's part of the game now. The Poms do it, Pakistan do it, South Africa do it......especially at home.

Some people here make the Aussie cricket team seem to be the epitomy of evil in the sport.

Why justify it? How does that change the fact that some of the Australians should be fined for their conduct? Why must it be a "well other teams do it too" situation? It doesn't matter who else does it, each team shouldn't be penalized on the basis of how many other teams "do it". It's interesting to note how many Australians on this forum feel the same way about their own team.

 

[Josh]

That decision to Powell was an absolute disgrace. It hit him another good set of stumps outside off. What the hell is this?? Rudi's on the decline and Dar's just never been good with LBWs.

 

[Top_Cat]

To be fair, with some of the appeals that Gilchrist and Warne go up for, they'd have to be totally oblivious to the rules of the game to think that they're actually out. They say Warne will never die wondering and Gilchrist tends to be the same when he's bowling.

I notice that most in this thread conveniently forget the countless number of times when Warnie, Lee or McGrath have their hands in the air pleading with the umpire whilst Gilchrist's hands remain steadfastly at this side, mouth closed or at most a muffled "Ohhhh....". Obviously, like everyone who has ever played the game, occasionally he goes over-the-top but it's not as if he screams for everything.

So you claim to know that he doesn't? I'm over myself, and this argument. It's ridiculous, unless you're psychic and haven't told us.

That's what it ultimately boils down to; no-one actually knows for certain what's going on out there. All of us have the benefit of a perfect viewing angle and countless replays as well as Snicko, Hawkeye, etc. The players who are doing the work, do not. Sometimes you don't even realise what's happened so focussed is one on the job at hand; I've lost count of how many times just hitting the pad has made me jump in the air like I jus' don't care and then a few seconds afterwards I've thought "Wait a sec; that wasn't even close." The appeal becomes less of an appeal and just a release. When you're in the heat of battle, sometimes the pressure gets so much, particuarly when you have a batsman in trouble, that hitting the pad, beating the edge, etc. makes you just yell because you're fit to burst. I can't even imagine what that pressure is like on the international stage.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I notice that most in this thread conveniently forget the countless number of times when Warnie, Lee or McGrath have their hands in the air pleading with the umpire whilst Gilchrist's hands remain steadfastly at this side, mouth closed or at most a muffled "Ohhhh....". Obviously, like everyone who has ever played the game, occasionally he goes over-the-top but it's not as if he screams for everything.

Don't get me wrong. I respect Gilchrist as a 'keeper in the way he carries himself generally. I'm just saying that there are definitely times when he appeals knowing that the batsman is almost certainly not out. Whether that's wrong or right is up for debate, as the rules don't govern on such a personal level - they can't.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I notice that most in this thread conveniently forget the countless number of times when Warnie, Lee or McGrath have their hands in the air pleading with the umpire whilst Gilchrist's hands remain steadfastly at this side, mouth closed or at most a muffled "Ohhhh....". Obviously, like everyone who has ever played the game, occasionally he goes over-the-top but it's not as if he screams for everything.



That's what it ultimately boils down to; no-one actually knows for certain what's going on out there. All of us have the benefit of a perfect viewing angle and countless replays as well as Snicko, Hawkeye, etc. The players who are doing the work, do not. Sometimes you don't even realise what's happened so focussed is one on the job at hand; I've lost count of how many times just hitting the pad has made me jump in the air like I jus' don't care and then a few seconds afterwards I've thought "Wait a sec; that wasn't even close." The appeal becomes less of an appeal and just a release. When you're in the heat of battle, sometimes the pressure gets so much, particuarly when you have a batsman in trouble, that hitting the pad, beating the edge, etc. makes you just yell because you're fit to burst. I can't even imagine what that pressure is like on the international stage.

Exactly, and just because an appeal was turned down, it doesn't mean there was no reason to appeal in the first place.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Don't get me wrong. I respect Gilchrist as a 'keeper in the way he carries himself generally. I'm just saying that there are definitely times when he appeals knowing that the batsman is almost certainly not out. Whether that's wrong or right is up for debate, as the rules don't govern on such a personal level - they can't.

As does every other player in the game...it's a matter of perception isn't it? The same reason why so many of us on here can have a different opinion of the same topic. People appeal for LBW from square leg...which I always find an interesting angle to judge it from

 

[GotSpin]

As does every other player in the game...it's a matter of perception isn't it? The same reason why so many of us on here can have a different opinion of the same topic. People appeal for LBW from square leg...which I always find an interesting angle to judge it from

Height and distance the batsmen is from the stumps

 

[Son Of Coco]

Height and distance the batsmen is from the stumps

Good point - offering support to teammates as to whether those two attributes are in the appeals favour.

Comments like 'it looks plumb from here' tend to take away from the appeal though in my opinion, they reduce it to some form of satire.

 

[SquidAU]

Why justify it? How does that change the fact that some of the Australians should be fined for their conduct? Why must it be a "well other teams do it too" situation? It doesn't matter who else does it, each team shouldn't be penalized on the basis of how many other teams "do it". It's interesting to note how many Australians on this forum feel the same way about their own team.

I am not trying to justify the behaviour of players. I never said that Australians shouldn't be fined for it. They should, if the situation warrants it. What gets my blood boiling is how some forum members point it out loud when an Aussie does and makes it look like Aussies are the only ones that do it.

All teams do it. No one is exempt.

 

[howardj]

As does every other player in the game...it's a matter of perception isn't it?

So you do admit Gilchrist does it then?

As for every other player in the game....they don't walk and then make a big thing about it though.

It's not the appealing when you know someone is not out - as you say above, every player has done that at some stage - it's the hypocrisy of Gilchrist's actions.


Anyway, time to move on.

 

[ClownSymonds]

I wish Bravo could've received more support. Now Clown won't have a chance to bat. I suppose that Clown getting a wicket would've been good consolation, but he didn't really get a chance to bowl.

 

[Top_Cat]

I didn't see a great deal of Bravo's knock but from what I heard, it was an excellent innings. I've always had a soft-spot for him since I saw him in his first Test against England; first ball in Test cricket, a wristy Lara-flick through the mid-on/square-leg arc for four. Second ball in Test cricket, a cover-drive with flourish to the cover fence. Now that's confidence.

 

[howardj]

Actually, the last word on this belongs to Peter Roebuck who neatly summed it up in a column late last year:

Adam Gilchrist's problem has been that he wants to walk but to leave the rest of his game untouched. He wants to leave of his own accord whenever he feels an edge, yet is prepared to appeal for catches behind the wicket when the ball has blatantly missed the bat or else for leg-before-wicket when the ball has been snicked. Often he leads the appeal and sometimes the charge, though he is hardly alone among wicketkeepers in that regard.

Opponents argue that Gilchrist cannot have it both ways. From their point of view his sense of fair play must be applied across the board or not at all. Anything else, they are convinced, reeks of hypocrisy. Truly sporting cricketers, they point out, stifle false appeals and hold their tongues in adversity.

 

[SquidAU]

I didn't see a great deal of Bravo's knock but from what I heard, it was an excellent innings. I've always had a soft-spot for him since I saw him in his first Test against England; first ball in Test cricket, a wristy Lara-flick through the mid-on/square-leg arc for four. Second ball in Test cricket, a cover-drive with flourish to the cover fence. Now that's confidence.

He was doing alot of those wristy flicks.....and getting boundaries!

Looks good, for mine. Windies might have unearthed a decent allrounder. And he has 2 test tons on the trot now.

Why didn't they use him for the 1st test?!?!?

 

[Slow Love™]

Wow, a very nice century by the looks of things by Bravo - I only saw sections of it, but he looked quite good. A funny thing - I felt that his dismissal (which was derided a little by the commentators as a "rush of blood") actually made a fair degree of sense, 'cause the guys at the other end were clearly only gonna block out dot balls, and any runs left to be made were only ever going to come off his bat.

As to the opinions being expressed in this thread about the Australian's appealing - I didn't see it all, but I think there's some legitimate arguments to be made about this. I would say the following:

1) Some Aussies, particularly Warne and Ponting, have been crossing the line for a while now, in terms of both intimidating the umpire, and directly challenging them on the field. IMO, this has been allowed for too long. It doesn't matter whether other teams do it or not, either - the ICC should stop this quick smart, and begin penalizing players who transgress, Australian or not.

2) I DO draw a distinction though, between the old bowing the head when a decision doesn't go your way or even expressing some disappointment (bowlers have been doing this for decades, and I don't see it as that problematic), and outright challenge and dissent. I don't know for sure whether Lee crossed that line today (and he might have). I think sometimes too much fuss is made over this issue.

3) The Aussies were definitely overappealing today. There was one ball in particular, from Warne, that pitched a mile outside leg stump, and hit the batsman (I think it might have been Ramdin) extremely high. In a high pressure situation, where the scores are extremely close or one team is fighting for a draw you might just let this off, but in a game like this one? What would people's opinions be if this were India we were talking about?

4) Some of the responsibility for all this has to fall on the umpires. A serious word to the captain instead of some of this "no sir, THANK YOU!" chummy nonsense might work wonders.

And:

The Aussies are the most despicable team in world cricket and will go down as the team that brought all the undesirable attributes into cricket.

5) Oh, rack off, Noddy.