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*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

PY

International Coach
I do believe I told you so.
Now it's all out and you knew cause I wanted to.


?? :no:
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
I had an email from someone not a million miles from Bruce Elliott a week ago, and quite a bit of interesting information from elsewhere this week. I followed some advice but I went about it in the right way instead of shouting my mouth off and making accusations.

I'm keeping it to myself because it was told to me in confidence.

Just thought I'd let you know.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Call me a cold-hearted cynic, but is it just a coincidence that, in the last 2 days, weve seen this statement and one by Dr Hurion (ICC's Human Movement specialist) where he states that Murali and Shoaib have not been tested under the latest protocols.
 

C_C

International Captain
social said:
Call me a cold-hearted cynic, but is it just a coincidence that, in the last 2 days, weve seen this statement and one by Dr Hurion (ICC's Human Movement specialist) where he states that Murali and Shoaib have not been tested under the latest protocols.
True. But why singling out Murali is beyond me- if there are new protocols, every bowler should be made to test for it randomly, akin to Olympics drug tests- the fallacy in these experts calling for testing Murali/Akhtar and not others is that in their own words, you cannot determine if someone is breaking the 15 degree rule or not by the naked eye. Therefore, ALL bowlers should be tested periodically.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
True. But why singling out Murali is beyond me- if there are new protocols, every bowler should be made to test for it randomly, akin to Olympics drug tests- the fallacy in these experts calling for testing Murali/Akhtar and not others is that in their own words, you cannot determine if someone is breaking the 15 degree rule or not by the naked eye. Therefore, ALL bowlers should be tested periodically.
As Elliot is implying with Murali, match conditions are different to lab test conditions.

The technology must be made available to test all bowlers in real time in match conditions.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
luckyeddie said:
Yes, same difference.

Why do you think I've got it in for Murali?

I haven't, as I've been at great lengths to point out.
The post was aimed at the one who claimed Shoaib and Murali hadnt been tested under the new protocols, but failed to mention Lee in the same breath. (Yes, Iam implying nationalistic bias)
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Deja moo said:
The post was aimed at the one who claimed Shoaib and Murali hadnt been tested under the new protocols, but failed to mention Lee in the same breath. (Yes, Iam implying nationalistic bias)
There's no random testing at the moment - a bowler has to be seen to be bowling with a suspect action, then reported to the match referee by the umpires.

Now Brett Lee is Australian, and the only nationality of umpires who don't stand in test matches involving Australia would be...... Australian.

So how is nationalistic bias going to come into it?
 

Deja moo

International Captain
luckyeddie said:
There's no random testing at the moment - a bowler has to be seen to be bowling with a suspect action, then reported to the match referee by the umpires.

Now Brett Lee is Australian, and the only nationality of umpires who don't stand in test matches involving Australia would be...... Australian.

So how is nationalistic bias going to come into it?
Social is Aussie, I presume ? I wasnt referring to the umpires, rather the poster.
 

C_C

International Captain
There's no random testing at the moment - a bowler has to be seen to be bowling with a suspect action, then reported to the match referee by the umpires.
Which i think is a fundamental contradiction. All the biomechanists say that given how the elbow joint can move sideways and 'open and close normal way' and how fast the arm is moving at the point of delivery, there is no way of knowing who is flexing by how much through the naked eye and optical illusions caused by the compound effects ( the shoulder moving a bit, the arm comming down from a different angle, wrists snapping, etc.).
So it is a bit of a fundamental contradiction for the rule to be ' a bowler is reported if he is 'percieved' to have a suspect action'. Umm...the whole 'percieved' is the problem here because you cannot percieve a chuck ( or degree of flexion) through the naked eye. Someone with a dodgier looking action could infact be flexing less than someone with a pristine looking action. Therefore, i see no reason not to adopt the 'random testing for ALL bowlers once a year' clause into the rules, apart from the financial aspect of it.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
C_C said:
Which i think is a fundamental contradiction. All the biomechanists say that given how the elbow joint can move sideways and 'open and close normal way' and how fast the arm is moving at the point of delivery, there is no way of knowing who is flexing by how much through the naked eye and optical illusions caused by the compound effects ( the shoulder moving a bit, the arm comming down from a different angle, wrists snapping, etc.).
So it is a bit of a fundamental contradiction for the rule to be ' a bowler is reported if he is 'percieved' to have a suspect action'. Umm...the whole 'percieved' is the problem here because you cannot percieve a chuck ( or degree of flexion) through the naked eye. Someone with a dodgier looking action could infact be flexing less than someone with a pristine looking action. Therefore, i see no reason not to adopt the 'random testing for ALL bowlers once a year' clause into the rules, apart from the financial aspect of it.
You might well be right - and I see no fundamental objection to bowlers being tested either. Get the whole thing out in the open for once and for all.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach

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