*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[C_C]

Let me get this straight.....

For the last three months, you have been quoting results from a 'secret' paper - results that were available to Muttiah Muralitharan on or before 13 November 2004, and yet these very same results were not available to Tim May who actually sat on the ICC panel?

Just you, and Muttiah Muralitharan? And it might be available to me if I contact the University of Western Australia and ask them nicely?

There isn't a journalist in the world that wouldn't be prepared to get down on his hands and knees and kiss feet in order to plead with his paper's owner to fork out a couple of million, because this is absolute dynamite.

I bet that you still maintain that you have a shred of credibility left.

1. I am not minutely concerned about your impressions about my credibility (or the lack of it). However, if you think i lack credibility, don't direct questions towards me asking how i found something out. To do so would imply an assumption of credibility from your part. Just say i am lying and be done with it. Ie, stop beating around the bush.

2. There isnt a journo in the cricketing world who wouldnt love to get his hands on that piece- precisely why it isnt in public domain and why i am not gonna put it in public domain. However, universities share information when requested(unless it is classified or there are copyright issues) and i am not gonna go stir that pot. I've seen the entire data on Murali- the whole nine yards. Along with ICC champion's trophy testings. I've told you how you may come across that data. Believe me if you will, dont if you dont wanna. Upto you.

3. Since you've been on this planet far longer than I have, you'd know by now that this issue has a huge undercurrent involving the power struggles in cricket. You'd also notice that almost every single player who's ever tested positive for doping has maintained innocence and their managers waxed eloquoent about the integrity of the said player.
Whether Tim May has seen the data collected is something i do not know. Whether that data exists or not - of that i know very well.

4. It can be made available to you if you have relevant reasons to procrure that data in an official capacity. I've already said more than enough on this and since i was born just yesterday, i havn't quite mastered the art of putting everything on the internet simply because someone wanted it- atleast, not yet. Apparently that is the norm.

5. There is absolutely no 'dynamite' in this- except for the tabloid journos. It has already been stated by ICC and the panel of biomechanists that Murali is legitimate. The OZ media keeps spinning a tale of deceit around him and any comparative analysis in news media is largely irrelevant because it is agenda-driven, not fact driven.


6. For the last time, stop beating around the bush. Call me a liar, post two threads about it, comment a few times about my lack of credibility and be done with it. None of us have any means to verify anything on a messageboard, so for any civil discourse, trust is essential. You could be a 15 year old pickney picking through your dad's cricket archives, i could be a farmer from Sudan and Social could be sitting in prison for all we know. Since you either will not or cannot persue the course i indicated, that is your next best option, isnt it ?
Go ahead then.

PS: Not all my quotations are from papers outside the public domain. However, the measured degree of flexion for some bowlers participating in the ICC champion's trophy is. There are ways to access data outside of pubic domain and wanting to publicise such data is most definately not one of them.

 

[Lostman]

where can we get all these test results of teh champions trophy from CC?

 

[luckyeddie]

where can we get all these test results of teh champions trophy from CC?

He suggests that you contact the University of Western Australia.

 

[C_C]

He suggests that you contact the University of Western Australia.

Yes and the ICC ( though the latter option is less likely to succeed).

Or you could contact the relevant biomechanists and ask them for an accurate but unofficial copy of the readings.

 

[luckyeddie]

Regretfully, I cannot and will not take part in this discussion any longer.

 

[James]

1. All Australians over 50 are racist. You fit the bill
2. Almost all Aussies I've met over 50 are racist. You fit the bill.

This thread is now closed for seven days.

 

[James]

Thread re-opened.

If you want it to stay open, watch your comments.

 

[SJS]

I dont participate in this debate for reasons stated earlier but I would like to state here my disappointment at the policy we are following for dealing with posts with 'unparliamentary' language.

Closing down the thread instead of taking action against erring posters is a weak-kneed response and a misplaced attempt at even-handedness. Punishing everyone including the victims as well as the bystanders is no way of breaking up a scrap.

I am sorry if this sounds rough for thats not the intention whatsoever. I have immense regard for James and his team of administrators but I think my attachment to this forum and a sense of responsibilty pushes me to state my feelings.

I hope they are taken in the positive spirit in which they are offered.

 

[Truekiwijoker]

Warne is one of the all-time greats. The player of his era, the best amongst the best. A fantastic leg-spinners with increadable turn and accuracy even on the flipper and the slider. He get's breakthroughs and has changed the face of games, dismissing even the best batsmen.

Muralitharan is a hack off-spinner who has got away with chucking (shame on you ICC). He mostly gets bunny's and the lions share in an attack which only boast's Vaas as a serious wicket-taker. He should have been banned but has instead allowed some chucking and thus the 'doosra' to pollute Cricket. I want him to perish.

 

[andyc]

Warne is one of the all-time greats. The player of his era, the best amongst the best. A fantastic leg-spinners with increadable turn and accuracy even on the flipper and the slider. He get's breakthroughs and has changed the face of games, dismissing even the best batsmen.

Muralitharan is a hack off-spinner who has got away with chucking (shame on you ICC). He mostly gets bunny's and the lions share in an attack which only boast's Vaas as a serious wicket-taker. He should have been banned but has instead allowed some chucking and thus the 'doosra' to pollute Cricket. I want him to perish.

 

[James]

I dont participate in this debate for reasons stated earlier but I would like to state here my disappointment at the policy we are following for dealing with posts with 'unparliamentary' language.

Closing down the thread instead of taking action against erring posters is a weak-kneed response and a misplaced attempt at even-handedness. Punishing everyone including the victims as well as the bystanders is no way of breaking up a scrap.

I am sorry if this sounds rough for thats not the intention whatsoever. I have immense regard for James and his team of administrators but I think my attachment to this forum and a sense of responsibilty pushes me to state my feelings.

I hope they are taken in the positive spirit in which they are offered.

I agree with you to some degree, but on the other hand you have to look back a fair few pages for some proper discussion on this topic, and all the time it ends up with chucking comments, and abuse.

Myself and the moderators would much rather close this topic off completely but it stays around because people want to talk about it. Goodness knows why.

Muralitharan is a hack off-spinner who has got away with chucking (shame on you ICC). He mostly gets bunny's and the lions share in an attack which only boast's Vaas as a serious wicket-taker. He should have been banned but has instead allowed some chucking and thus the 'doosra' to pollute Cricket. I want him to perish.

If you've come here to Troll, I suggest you leave...

 

[Truekiwijoker]

If you've come here to Troll, I suggest you leave...

Umm... no... how is that trolling?

 

[luckyeddie]

Umm... no... how is that trolling?

Stating opinion as fact with the (seemingly) sole intention of getting a fish to rise to the fly could be construed as trolling.

Have a look at the recent history of this thread - it was closed for a week because of things getting a little too heated - and you seem to have just thrown a can of petrol on the embers.

 

[Truekiwijoker]

The only I stated close to an opinion was that I want him to perish... I'm not attacking anyone who likes him.

Is harbouring an opinion unacceptable? take a look at that old thread where some guy calls a murali lover an idiot.

 

[honestbharani]

The only I stated close to an opinion was that I want him to perish... I'm not attacking anyone who likes him.

Is harbouring an opinion unacceptable? take a look at that old thread where some guy calls a murali lover an idiot.

dude, any guy who wants a cricketer to PERISH is not welcome in these forums. If you hate his action, so be it, but should HE perish simply because of that?


And BTW, EVERYONE except Sarwan chuck. So RIP Warne, Lillee, Pollock, McGrath, Akhtar, Lee, Harbhajan........

 

[C_C]

I forget who said it, but this thread ( almost everyone's behaviour- myself included) is a shining testament to the comment : " sport is the latest form of warfare and a sanitised and politically correct version of gladiator combat. There were rules then on how you should spill the blood of the opposition, there are rules now on how you should spill the blood of the opposition. Only in sport, we dont spill a whole heap of it as it happened in the Coloseum"

Perhaps it is high time that the anatagonists in this thread( who are many,myself included) take a chill pill and realise that all sports is, is a form of entertainment, no different than the soppy soap-operas.

 

[Ikki]

I forget who said it, but this thread ( almost everyone's behaviour- myself included) is a shining testament to the comment : " sport is the latest form of warfare and a sanitised and politically correct version of gladiator combat. There were rules then on how you should spill the blood of the opposition, there are rules now on how you should spill the blood of the opposition. Only in sport, we dont spill a whole heap of it as it happened in the Coloseum"

Perhaps it is high time that the anatagonists in this thread( who are many,myself included) take a chill pill and realise that all sports is, is a form of entertainment, no different than the soppy soap-operas.

I think we all knew it was entertainment. So does this indicate a change of manner? Only a few pages back you were all for the game changing and even if it meant destroying it. You also claimed that without new advents and evolution, to which you like, that cricket would be no more than mere entertainment. Now you go to claim that it IS nothing but entertainment?....Whew...I'm really confused now.

Sorry for going off topic and spirit...that was just very contradicting.

 

[C_C]

I think we all knew it was entertainment. So does this indicate a change of manner? Only a few pages back you were all for the game changing and even if it meant destroying it. You also claimed that without new advents and evolution, to which you like, that cricket would be no more than mere entertainment. Now you go to claim that it IS nothing but entertainment?....Whew...I'm really confused now.

It *IS* entertainment. Nothing more. Nothing less. And resistance to change depicts a stagnant and overly posessive mentality towards something. The game is not for you to posess, but merely be on it for the ride. If the fundamental purpose of the game is to test one's skills in the decipline ( and not just be a staged show), then means of testing those skills should be paramount- ie, the best judgement making process available- and that translates to introduction of technology into the fray along with scientifically backed up judicial system. To resist change simply for tradition's sake is not only backwards, its against the fundamental precipit of life- it goes against the very fabric of human culture, society and philosophy- which is to evolve.

It is not a very hard thing to grasp really.

 

[Truekiwijoker]

dude, any guy who wants a cricketer to PERISH is not welcome in these forums. If you hate his action, so be it, but should HE perish simply because of that?

Relax mate I was just JOKING!, although I do deeply despise Murilitharan, and that guy who was captain ten years ago...

And BTW, EVERYONE except Sarwan chuck. So RIP Warne, Lillee, Pollock, McGrath, Akhtar, Lee, Harbhajan........

Shane Warne chucks?

[Truekiwijoker sits pondering how chucking could assist a wrist spinner]

 

[Deja moo]

[Truekiwijoker sits pondering how chucking could assist a wrist spinner]

That throws a lot of light on your mis/understanding of Murali's bowling What do you think he is ?