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*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

Deja moo

International Captain
Buddhmaster said:
I got nuthin....
Well, you see, sometimes stress can be such a killer that, on occasions, the male reproductive organ fails to achieve satisfactory erection, sometimes referred to by laymen as a failure to get it to stand up..

(what ?? I did indirectly suggest that the hashish vs alcohol discussion idea would have been better than this lame stuff to follow)
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
Look, my only intention was to screw this thread up, and looking at Deja's last post, it's been done for me.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Buddhmaster said:
Look, my only intention was to screw this thread up, and looking at Deja's last post, it's been done for me.
All thats needed now are some risque photographs..
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
Deja moo said:
All thats needed now are some risque photographs..
"Because of you, I never stray too far from the sidewalk. Because of you I learned to play on the safe side so I don’t get hurt. Because of you I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me. Because of you, I am afraid"

That's for you Warnie
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Okay this thread suddenly jumped up in post counts. The posts count was very low until recently.

Any way can a mod add a poll to this thread? Would be interesting to see the results and who thinks who is greater among the two if peole have to choose between the two.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Pratyush said:
Okay this thread suddenly jumped up in post counts. The posts count was very low until recently.

Any way can a mod add a poll to this thread? Would be interesting to see the results and who thinks who is greater among the two if peole have to choose between the two.
Whats the point ? Merit isnt going to be a consideration for the majority, obviously.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
C_C said:
Err. Sharjah is nothing like Pakistan. Try 'way hotter and way more humid' and you'd get an idea.
It's also nothing like Australia anbd it's more similar to Pakistan than Australia.
 

C_C

International Captain
Tom Halsey said:
It's also nothing like Australia anbd it's more similar to Pakistan than Australia.
Well if we are gonna nitpick on that level, we should make Nagpur test ( IND vs OZ last year) a home test for Aussies and away test for Indians, given that the pitch was far more Australian than Indian.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
No, the main reason that I consider it an away game is that it was chosen by the PCB, but the fact that it's more similar to Pakistan also helps.
 

C_C

International Captain
Tom Halsey said:
No, the main reason that I consider it an away game is that it was chosen by the PCB, but the fact that it's more similar to Pakistan also helps.
That was the only logical alternative for a venue, given that there arnt grounds outside the test playing nations where a 5-day pitch could be prepared in a hurry. Sharjah normally prepares a pitch that will last 4-5 days, as it is the same surface on which an entire tourney is played.
Holding the match in another Test playing nation would've been extraordinarily complicated.
The choice of Sharjah had very little to do with choosing a 'home' advantage and everything to do with logistics.
Sharjah is not a 'home or away' ground, as it is 'away' to both teams- ie, neutral venue!
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
C_C said:
That was the only logical alternative for a venue, given that there arnt grounds outside the test playing nations where a 5-day pitch could be prepared in a hurry. Sharjah normally prepares a pitch that will last 4-5 days, as it is the same surface on which an entire tourney is played.
Holding the match in another Test playing nation would've been extraordinarily complicated.
The choice of Sharjah had very little to do with choosing a 'home' advantage and everything to do with logistics.
Sharjah is not a 'home or away' ground, as it is 'away' to both teams- ie, neutral venue!
Everything you say may be true, but I still consider it an away fixture for Australia.
 

C_C

International Captain
Tom Halsey said:
Everything you say may be true, but I still consider it an away fixture for Australia.
argh.
It is an away fixture from Australia
It was also an away fixture from Pakistan.
Hence it is a neutral fixture and has been classified such ( instead of being included in 'away' stats) !
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
C_C said:
argh.
It is an away fixture from Australia
It was also an away fixture from Pakistan.
Hence it is a neutral fixture and has been classified such ( instead of being included in 'away' stats) !
However true what you said a couple of posts ago is, I don't consider it an away fixture for Pakistan, solely due to the PCB deciding where to play it. It's all a matter of opinion really.
 

ohtani's jacket

State Vice-Captain
social said:
Warne is hardly a poster child for decency away from the cricket field.

However, any attempt to discredit his efforts on behalf of the tsunami victims is pathetic.

Before criticising others, NZers should have a look at its' own aid efforts.
Whatever.

Warne was all over Murali like a rash when he felt like it.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Warne wasn't really having a go at Murali's ability - he was saying he plays Zimbabwe and Bangladesh a hell of a lot, which is certainly true.
 

ohtani's jacket

State Vice-Captain
Tom Halsey said:
Warne wasn't really having a go at Murali's ability - he was saying he plays Zimbabwe and Bangladesh a hell of a lot, which is certainly true.
So even with an unassailable lead on Murali, he's still the insecure bowler that Waugh said he was?

It's hardly Murali's fault that he's played those teams so often. What's he supposed to do --abstain from bowling? Will Warne miss the Bangladesh tour on principle?
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
ohtani's jacket said:
It's hardly Murali's fault that he's played those teams so often. What's he supposed to do --abstain from bowling? Will Warne miss the Bangladesh tour on principle?
No, it's not, and no-one said it was.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
I already know that.
What you dont seem to know is a rather elementary fact - how fast the whole arm completes the action is not directly proportional to the speed at which the ball is bowled ( ie, the registered speed of the ball on speedguns). Ie, faster the arm goes around, it doesnt necessarily mean the ball is being bowled faster.



I am talking about the media treatment of murali during and after the incident. It is no secret that the OZ media was the most vicious one.



It may not, but he does represent your nation and his perspective(or lack of) would largely dictate your nation's fate during his tenure.



Sorry, you are the one losing credibility here.

Apart from SL public, who cares if SL win or lose ? well by that logic, who cares apart from OZ whether OZ wins or loses ?
What is the basis of you claiming Warney being subject to greater pressure ( apparently 'greater stage?' ), given that it is pretentious to believe that ENG-OZ matches are more precipitous simply due to its historicity.
Ultimately, pressure is proportional to the weight of expectations - having a billion hopes to carry is a lot harder than a few million ( for eg.), irrespective of history - for it is the people who care about this particular history.
And SL's population is significantly larger than Australia's, especially if you count the expat numbers.

Just because *YOU* ( and most of OZ/ENG) think that Ashes is the more pressure-inducive than other contests, because of your cultural history, it doesnt make it so universally.



No, as is evident here from multiple posters telling you, you are the one engaging in utter nonsensical diatribe, that too, without knowing what you speak of.

Murali does better than Warney overall and their away performances are remarkably similar. So it doesnt take a genius to figure out that his home performance is significantly better.
And your argument is tantamount to arguing that B & B is a better grade than A & B (ie, grades in two courses).
Which is utterly ridiculous.
But then again, as has been shown in this thread quite categorically and pointed out by several other posters, you are definately no stranger to the utterly ridiculous.
a. Dont try and put words in my mouth C C.

I have never made such a claim.

However, I have picked you up on numerous occasions re your faulty interpretations of the research.

b. Aside from the reports at the time of the "incidents", the Aus media has been largely adopted one of 3 stances towards Murali - ignore, skepticism or, of late, sympathise.

However, they have been justifiably scathing in their criticism towards the administration of the game, particularly in relation to throwing.

IMO, the stance of both the SL Board and Murali towards touring Aus has been pathetic.

Faking injuries and making demands as to who should be allowed to umpire fixtures has done nothing to quell whatever negative feelings there might be towards Murali's action.

And as FOD pointed out, Aus cricketers attract far more criticism every time they tour NZ than Murali ever got here.

c. John Howard has an influence in terms of policy making.

His opinion on virtually anything else is irrelevant and he certainly has no sway in terms of how the average Australian views Murali. In fact, at the time he was roundly criticised for making these statements.

d. Again, youre trying to put words in my mouth.

Where did I say that the Ashes were bigger than fixtures involving India.

What I stated, if you had bothered to read (that seems to be the problem with all of your arguments), was that Murali, by virtue of the country for which he plays, has never been involved in series that attract remotely the same level of pressure as the Ashes.

e. Again, your trying to put words in my mouth.

Kindly point out where in my post I compared Warne to Murali.

I merely pointed out the anomalies in Murali's record.

Once again, it's all bluff and posture in an attempt to justify your emotional attachment to Murali. For a supposed man of science, you seem to have trouble discerning the difference between fact and fiction.
 

C_C

International Captain
I have never made such a claim.

However, I have picked you up on numerous occasions re your faulty interpretations of the research.
Yes you did make such a claim. You claimed that its ridiculous that arm speed is the main determining factor for chucking and that Murali's arm action is faster than someone like McGraths.
As per faulty interpretations - please state what faulty interpretations you apparently found- for i find it hard to believe that someone can find fault in something they dont really know or havn't really bothered reading up on.

b. Aside from the reports at the time of the "incidents", the Aus media has been largely adopted one of 3 stances towards Murali - ignore, skepticism or, of late, sympathise.
Please. The treatment of Murali from the OZ press and the OZ crowd has been absolutely abyssimal until very late - its one thing being heckled by the crowd, quite another being downright abused by it.
Like i said, it is the Aussie public's loss, not having seen Murali in OZ - not Murali's.
Regarding faking injuries - i am sure you'd like to say that but mind if i point out to you that OZ players seem to have 'miraculous' injury recovery and tend to miraculously get niggles to miss a tourney they dont wanna attend ?

His opinion on virtually anything else is irrelevant and he certainly has no sway in terms of how the average Australian views Murali. In fact, at the time he was roundly criticised for making these statements.
Good. But he is still representative of the people - that is what democracy defines his role as. And while it obviously doesnt mean that he represents the viewpoint of every single OZ, a derogatory comment by the head of a state is reason enough for most people not to give a toss about that foreign nation.

What I stated, if you had bothered to read (that seems to be the problem with all of your arguments), was that Murali, by virtue of the country for which he plays, has never been involved in series that attract remotely the same level of pressure as the Ashes.
And thats where you are utterly and totally wrong.
Most of the subcontinent takes it rivalry pretty fiercely and i dont see any reason why IND-SL is less 'intense' than the Ashes, apart from a simply anglo-centric cultural viewpoint and ethos.
To the OZ/English, Ashes may be the biggest thing and attract all the fanfare and hoopla of two developed nations and their medias, but it is no more pressure inducing than the IND-SL rivalry for example. Especially if you actually talk to Sri Lankans and how much stock they put in beating India, its patently obvious that to the SL, IND-SL is every bit as important as Ashes is to an OZ/Englishman.

Once again, it's all bluff and posture in an attempt to justify your emotional attachment to Murali. For a supposed man of science, you seem to have trouble discerning the difference between fact and fiction.
What i find most troubling, is that i've backed up my viewpoints with facts and logical extrapolations, you on the other hand, have not. And before you try to question my credibility in matters of science,i suggest you atleast study enough of it to hold your own.
Before then, you have absolutely no clue about what you are talking re: the science of bowling actions.
You've been told on this thread, by several people,that not only is your information wrong, your 'logic' is highly flawed as well.
The basic fact is, Murali is statistically a greater bowler than Warney is overall. One clear demonstration of that is the fact that without his vaunted comrade in arms McGrath present to scythe out the top order, Warney drops to Kumble-esque 27-ish average while Murali, who has far less support than even McGrath-less Warney averages 24-ish.
Obviously there are areas where Warney scores higher than Murali but i believe that overall, the stats point to Murali, not Warney.
 

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