***Official*** Super Series

[tooextracool]

4.82 really isn't that bad for a 5th/6th bowler who averages 5 or so overs per game. If your 5th bowler/s can send down 10 overs for 50 runs and take a wicket, that's not really a particularly shocking result.

Symonds is a pretty decent bowler I think. He's not going to be picked for his bowling alone obviously, but it compliments his batting and fielding nicely and he's certainly better than someone like Paul Collingwood. And, if he had the advantage of playing somewhere like Sri Lanka or New Zealand on slow pitches instead of Australia, he'd be a far more economical bowler than he is. On a quick pitch with decent bounce he's too easy to hit, but he's shown plenty of times that on a slow pitch he can be extremely economical.

the problem here is that most people seem to be putting symonds down as an all rounder, but a 5th-6th bowler who bowls 5 overs isnt an all rounder, he's just a kallis.

 

[tooextracool]

Your not looking for excuses are you too cool ?????

excuses for what?

 

[tooextracool]

Er too extra ,what do you want the selectors to pick on,,,,the future scores,they can nly go on past cant they,unless they have a crystal ball

except if you look carefully lara hasnt exactly been setting the world on fire in ODIs over the last few years, therefore it was stupid to have him in the side ITFP. AFAIC they picked lara based on what he accomplished 10 years ago.

 

[jlo33692]

Your not looking for excuses are you too cool ?????

Tooextracool quote
.it certainly appears as though he isnt putting in as much effort as he normally does, and you cant really blame him after being part of such an important series and with another important series around the corner.

???

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

the problem here is that most people seem to be putting symonds down as an all rounder, but a 5th-6th bowler who bowls 5 overs isnt an all rounder, he's just a kallis.

I think if on average you bowl more than half your alloted overs in an ODI, you count as an ODI all-rounder. Lehmann, Jayasuria, Symonds etc fit the bill in that respect. He's not as good an all-rounder as Flintoff obviously, and he clearly very much a batting all-rounder, but he's still in the team as a bowler as well.

 

[jlo33692]

???

Oh It just read a bit that you were trying to give reasons why Freddie is playing poorly but on the same wont accept anything on symonds behalf,but maybe its just me,,,hahahha,were orf to races,have a nice day,and get a good sleep

 

[age_master]

I think if on average you bowl more than half your alloted overs in an ODI, you count as an ODI all-rounder. Lehmann, Jayasuria, Symonds etc fit the bill in that respect. He's not as good an all-rounder as Flintoff obviously, and he clearly very much a batting all-rounder, but he's still in the team as a bowler as well.

agreed

 

[jlo33692]

I think if on average you bowl more than half your alloted overs in an ODI, you count as an ODI all-rounder. Lehmann, Jayasuria, Symonds etc fit the bill in that respect. He's not as good an all-rounder as Flintoff obviously, and he clearly very much a batting all-rounder, but he's still in the team as a bowler as well.

Good point Sean, What constitutes an all rounder surely its just not those who bowl out the 10 overs is it? where does it stop at 6 overs or 8 overs, i would say anyone who bowls regulary in a ODI X Bats is all rounder? have a great day guys,,,we off to races.,bye

 

[tooextracool]

Powerplay not taken - Aussies don't really have a choice, but it could cost them later on. Especially with Flintoff coming in at 8!!!! The strength of this World XI batting is ridiculous!

its not strength actually, its more insanity. brian lara batting at 5 and dravid at 6(and of course pietersen at 8). batting players out of position almost always doesnt work, and yet the selectors persist with it.

 

[tooextracool]

I think if on average you bowl more than half your alloted overs in an ODI, you count as an ODI all-rounder. Lehmann, Jayasuria, Symonds etc fit the bill in that respect. He's not as good an all-rounder as Flintoff obviously, and he clearly very much a batting all-rounder, but he's still in the team as a bowler as well.

no bowlers who only bowl their full quote of overs when the conditions suit them arent all rounders, they are part timers, and all of the above mentioned names(and lehmann as an ODI all rounder is hilarious) are part time bowlers.

 

[tooextracool]

He is one of the top traditional 5 leg-spinners ever and his record backs it up (dont count O'Reilly or Kumble because they are are basically medium pace top-spin bowlers).

and because there have barely been any quality(or otherwise) bowlers using the craft it must mean that macgill is quality doesnt it?
its like saying that paul adams is amongst the top 5 left arm chinamen bowlers we've ever seen, hence hes world class.

 

[tooextracool]

That Sehwag is a better LOI player than Gayle.

certainly not with the way sehwag has been playing in the last few years. if sehwag would simply realise that he could be a far more effective player if he played ODIs in exactly the same way he plays test match cricket he might actually accomplish something.instead he chooses to bat like afridi and not apply any part of his mind to ODI cricket.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

no bowlers who only bowl their full quote of overs when the conditions suit them arent all rounders, they are part timers, and all of the above mentioned names(and lehmann as an ODI all rounder is hilarious) are part time bowlers.

Okay then. Here is a list of 10 ODI all-rounders (in my humble opinion) and the number of overs per match each has bowled over their entire career. Mind telling me which of these are all-rounders and why the others are not? I'm aware of course that some players are all-rounders for part of their careers and not others, but this is the easiest way to do it.

Ian Harvey - 7.48
Lance Kluesener - 7.14
Carl Hooper - 7.02
Shane Watson - 6.64
Shahid Afridi - 6.46
Andrew Flintoff - 6.22
Sanath Jayasuria - 6
Jacques Kallis - 6
Andrew Symonds - 5.67
Chris Gayle 5.38

 

[tooextracool]

Sehwag is a substantially better player than Gayle.

A cameo or 2 from Gayle wont change that fact.

To change that opinion, Gayle needed to convert his start into a big 100 today.

Sehwag can do it but there is no evidence to suggest that Gayle is capable of the same.

have you seriously ever watched gayle bat in ODI cricket?
because hes played far more important as well as sensible innings in ODIs than sehwag at any point in time.

 

[tooextracool]

Okay then. Here is a list of 10 ODI all-rounders (in my humble opinion) and the number of overs per match each has bowled over their entire career. Mind telling me which of these are all-rounders and why the others are not? I'm aware of course that some players are all-rounders for part of their careers and not others, but this is the easiest way to do it.

Ian Harvey - 7.48
Lance Kluesener - 7.14
Carl Hooper - 7.02
Shane Watson - 6.64
Shahid Afridi - 6.46
Andrew Flintoff - 6.22
Sanath Jayasuria - 6
Jacques Kallis - 6
Andrew Symonds - 5.67
Chris Gayle 5.38

im not going to bother with figures to be honest. i can give you countless reasons why these figures arent accurate. such as flintoff developing from a part time to a complete bowler as his career progressed, some bowlers playing more often in favourable bowling conditions(jayasuriya) or even that as games progress its not entirely unlikely that teams dont bowl the entire 50 overs all the time either. nor do i see bowlers with rubbish records like symonds being all rounders,simply because they bowl 5.67 overs per game.
out of all those players in the list only flintoff, chris gayle(off late), hooper and klusener qualify as ODI all rounders. ian harvey was more off an ordinary bowler who could bat a bit. and its glaringly obvious when you look at their bowling records that they are all rounders.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh It just read a bit that you were trying to give reasons why Freddie is playing poorly but on the same wont accept anything on symonds behalf,but maybe its just me

do you honestly believe that flintoff has a point to prove by scoring runs or taking wickets in this series? i doubt it, and with an important series around the corner i know i wouldnt bowl at my best and put in too much effort based on what is merely an exhibition game.

 

[tooextracool]

Good point Sean, What constitutes an all rounder surely its just not those who bowl out the 10 overs is it? where does it stop at 6 overs or 8 overs, i would say anyone who bowls regulary in a ODI X Bats is all rounder?

no what constitues an all rounder is someone who has a good record with both bat and ball. a bowling average of 37(which gets worse when you remove b'desh) and an ER of 4.82 is very very poor, and its not worthy of being called a bowler.
you cant have it both ways and say, well its not really that bad if he bowls only 5 overs a game and is a 5th or 6th bowler. because when you say that you are really saying that hes not an all rounder.

 

[tooextracool]

It seems he is in one day then out the next,I am hoping like hell he will play as in Aussie he is widely regarded as having no peer in cricket apart from the Don,i believe he is also treated as a god in india?

and people wonder why i think sachin is overrated

 

[tooextracool]

Ntini is pretty bad. Murali is terrible and Akhtar is not pretty to watch. If they end up in a position like they were in vs. Victoria then all I will say is good luck R.O.W with that tail.

if 8 of what is supposed to be the worlds best players cant win the game, then its highly unlikely that a part time 9th batsman will change things.

 

[tooextracool]

Just look at the Natwest series - Beforehand I personally thought England would've done well to win 1 of the 6 or 7 50-over games, and anything else would've been a bonus.

so much so, that you werent certain as to whether england would make the finals of the natwest series?