Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

[Manee]

Sorry but that has nothing to do with anything. He was dispensed of for political reasons and was hugely over beforehand, and after his name has been chanted at various events since. He would have been a key part of nexus but for the tie thing.

He was over, but the WWE did not seem overly keen on pushing him to a great extent. If they were, they would have had him win NXT rather than being weirdly thrown off. Also, as far as I know, Vince does not fire anyone that he does not want to and goes by his own rules, if he wanted Bryan to be a star, I reckon he would have kept him.

Edit - also, why the hell was the win over miz uncredible????

Because, IIRC, he got beaten senseless and won with a rollup.

My mistake, upon watching the match. However, I just was not at all keen on having him lose every match. People said it was booking 101 but he had wrestling credibility and nothing else. He wasn't a small guy who could take a beating, he could dish it out too and by having him lose, it painted him as bloody useless. He was not the right person to do the rags to riches story with.

 

[GIMH]

He was over, but the WWE did not seem overly keen on pushing him to a great extent. If they were, they would have had him win NXT rather than being weirdly thrown off. Also, as far as I know, Vince does not fire anyone that he does not want to and goes by his own rules, if he wanted Bryan to be a star, I reckon he would have kept him.



Because, IIRC, he got beaten senseless and won with a rollup.

They made him the focal point of NXT and had him beat their top midcarder clean on Raw (any other rookie victories over pros prior to nexus came on NXT). He was the one tasked with making the biggest statement to John Cena during the initial nexus beatdown and he was the guy who turned boring Michael Cole into a twatty heelish announcer - I know a push when I see one and Danielson got one.

Vince doesn't go by his own rules, he runs a business. It was deemed damaging by sponsors so DB had to go. It was also felt to be a threat to Linda's campaign. Vince runs the ship but the whole myth about him running it 100% as he chooses is just that, a myth.

As for Miz-Danielson, you recall incorrectly. He may have pinned him with a rollup, can't remember, but he had him on the brink of submitting beforehand anyhow. Not that it wouldn't have been credible anyway if it had gone down as you described, that's just pseudo smarky nonsense, the vast majority of the audience only cares who wins, and a rookie pinning a top heel midcarder clean is credible regardless of what comes before.

See also, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, The Rock...

 

[GIMH]

I should clarify to avoid looking hypocritical, who wins isn't the only thing fans care about but when a babyface wins after being dominated is a credible win because he has done so cleanly and shown himself capable of winning. At the same time, a guy doesn't look useless by losing unless all you do is read the results. Bryan was put over on the mic strongly by all pros except Miz and was booked as a victim of circumstance, a victim of an arrogant pro who didn't want anything to do with him. The crowd reactions to Bryan's worked shoot on Cole showed you they didn't think he looked bloody useless, Batista's anger at not being able to beat the clock against him put him over too.

I genuinely believe the original plan was for him to win NXT but Wade was so good that they went with him and they moved Bryan's big win over Miz to Raw because they had decided to roll with Nexus.

What happened post-beatdown doesn't change that they booked him well previously and I do believe he will be back.

Manee, I love the enthusiasm you have for wrestling but I think you get sucked in by IWC ideologies too much, just enjoy it because 95% of what most clowns within the IWC deem to be a burial and so forth is nothing of the sort.

 

[Manee]

It is not that at all. Tbh, I flesh out my arguments too much about Bryan. The one thing which irked me is that you have this man who could be a future IC, US or World/WWE Champion and you have him losing to Skip Sheffield and some of the other crap rookies on NXT. Having him, a ten year veteran, lose to some of the most useless guys to step foot in a WWE ring just pissed me right off.

I did enjoy his Batista match and his Jericho match and I'd really have liked it if there were no NXT because he can bloody well tell a story in that ring. However, against someone like Tarver or Sheffield or Young, the right thing would have him dominate and I'd agree with you that it doesn't fit the direction they were trying to take him.

The Vince having 100% control is something I've picked up from a lot of shoot interviews by people like Triple H and Paul Heyman, but perhaps Linda's senate campaign is a one off which threw a spanner in the works.

 

[Manee]

BTW, one of my favourite matches.

 

[GIMH]

We will have to agree to disagree. Always fun discussing these things with you though and I would continue to if I was not headed out.

Onwards and upwards, so hyped for that main event on sunday!

 

[Manee]

Oh yeah, definitely one for watching live.

 

[sledger]

BTW, one of my favourite matches.

Raven such a gun. Shame his ring work is dodgy as. So great otherwise.

 

[Jono]

Still remember Raven's flock sitting near the ring in the WCW Nitro days.

So good.

 

[masterblaster]

Completely agree with GIMH about Bryan Danielson. I know this may be boring GIMH, but you and I seem to have pretty similar philosophies on pro wrestling. Agree completely with your comment on internet fans. Most internet fans just can't seem to see the big picture and see a few losses here and there as a burial.

Bryan was the central focal point on NXT and the push that he received made the show so compelling. I really hope they bring Bryan back as he has the potential to be one of their biggest stars.

NXT Season 2 has been terrible in my opinion. The drama, conflict and must watch feeling is just not there. The people on NXT have been fairly ordinary and only one or two of them would've made the WWE during the height of the Attitude Era. All of the others probably wouldn't have even been considered.

For me Kaval has been a stand out and I like Alex Riley. The rest however are forgettable even Husky Harris, as he's a mediocre Samoa Joe.

Changing topic a little bit, how good was that ending on Raw? That segment was just electric and thankfully it was a really hot crowd. This could potentially open up a babyface turn for Chris Jericho as well which would be a refreshing change and would liven up his character.

I'm looking forward to Summerslam, especially the Nexus match. Nexus don't have to go over as such, but they do have to look really strong to be taken seriously. I'm hoping Bryan Danielson is the 7th member of the team, but that's pretty far fetched even though it would make complete sense from a storyline perspective.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, it would make sense. Would play nicely into his history with Miz as well, given he looks likely currently. Does he have any indy bookings this weekend?

It's the most excited I've been for a non-Wrestlemania PPV since InVasion.

 

[masterblaster]

Looking forward to Summerslam as well and should be a good show. I was just watching the past episode of NXT and I realised that with a name like Lucky Cannon, his gimmick would've been completely different if this was the Attitude era.

 

[masterblaster]

Yeah, it would make sense. Would play nicely into his history with Miz as well, given he looks likely currently. Does he have any indy bookings this weekend?

It's the most excited I've been for a non-Wrestlemania PPV since InVasion.

I've checked Bryan Danielson's official website and no he doesn't have any independent bookings scheduled for this Sunday.

 

[Manee]

It's the most excited I've been for a non-Wrestlemania PPV since InVasion.

Ah, InVasion, where so many dream matches were played out like:
- Earl Hebner Vs Nick Patrick,
- APA Vs O'Haire & Palumbo,
- Big Show, Billy Gunn, Albert Vs Stasiak, Kanyon, Hugh Morrus
- The dream light heavyweight battle between Kidman and X Pac.

Only Wrestlemania 26 has come anywhere near disappointing as much as that pile of crap.

I just pray you don't disagree with me on that one!

 

[Manee]

Raven such a gun. Shame his ring work is dodgy as. So great otherwise.

I still can't believe he managed to both, crash his own cart and get run over by Kane's.

 

[GIMH]

Ah, InVasion, where so many dream matches were played out like:
- Earl Hebner Vs Nick Patrick,
- APA Vs O'Haire & Palumbo,
- Big Show, Billy Gunn, Albert Vs Stasiak, Kanyon, Hugh Morrus
- The dream light heavyweight battle between Kidman and X Pac.

Only Wrestlemania 26 has come anywhere near disappointing as much as that pile of crap.

I just pray you don't disagree with me on that one!

Main event was stellar and Jeff-RVD was one of the matches of the year. All in all, there was some dross but it was a reasonable show.

Don't know what you're on about RE Mania this year though, it was fantastic.

 

[Manee]

Main event was stellar and Jeff-RVD was one of the matches of the year. All in all, there was some dross but it was a reasonable show.

Yeah, they were good, a lot of filler though and if you were picturing an Invasion show, a year earlier - you might have, unreasonably perhaps, expected a few more big names, who would eventually debut like NWO, Goldberg, Steiner, Flair.

Don't know what you're on about RE Mania this year though, it was fantastic.

I'm just going to post once about this because I'm sure you must be tiring of my opinions. However, this year's Wrestlemania sucked. The tag match was a glorified squash; the triple threat was confusing, poorly built up and only had one result from the start; MITB was solid as always, Triple H/Sheamus was a pretty poor match with a disappointing result; Mysterio Vs Punk was good, but nowhere near what those two could and did produce; Hart Vs Vince made me want to cry; Edge Vs Jericho was a bizarre match, seeing Jericho often dominate the injured challenger (I found it bizarre at least, my mate thought it was a good match); Batista Vs Cena was rubbish and Taker/Michaels stole the show. I just feel that it was a star studded card that they could have done more with. Jericho Vs Edge could have been a classic, so could Mysterio Vs Punk and Batista Vs Cena but none of the matches clicked and was also a shame to see Bret wrestling in his clearly immobile state as well as Orton used so poorly in the prime of his career.

When you compare it to 19, 22, 17 or 24 (my favourite), it doesn't even come close.

 

[GIMH]

I am not tiring of your opinions, I just disagree with a lot of them

Your points on mania aren't horrible but I'll take issue with a couple.

What does glorified squash actually mean? A match is either a squash or it isn't, silly smarky language. That aside, it was terribly short, shame as well as I had just started getting into it.

What the hell was confusing about the triple threat? If you didn't like it fair enough (I did) but it was booked exactly as you would expect - Legacy double team Orton before inevitably turning on each other allowing Orton to take the win.

Rey Rey and Punk was good while it lasted but too short, they did indeed exceed this in the following months.

The result wasn't disappointing in HHH-Sheamus as there would have been no reason for Sheamus to continue the feud and look stronger.

Bret-vince was boring but made sense really - everyone wanted to see revenge and thus they got it.

I loved Edge-Jericho, and of course the injured party created least offence. The Jericho win was a bit left-field but keeping the belt off Edge enabled his subsequent heel turn.

The main comment I took issue with was your labelling Cena-Batista rubbish, requesting clarification on this before I shout at you though

Frankly staggered that anyone could put 22 or 24 above this. 17 and 19 are probably the best two MAnias but 10, 21 and 26 are in contention as well, IMO.

 

[Manee]

I am not tiring of your opinions, I just disagree with a lot of them

Your points on mania aren't horrible but I'll take issue with a couple.

What does glorified squash actually mean? A match is either a squash or it isn't, silly smarky language. That aside, it was terribly short, shame as well as I had just started getting into it.

Glorified being that it was at Wrestlemania, squash in that it was short and John Truth didn't actually get much offense in at all.

What the hell was confusing about the triple threat? If you didn't like it fair enough (I did) but it was booked exactly as you would expect - Legacy double team Orton before inevitably turning on each other allowing Orton to take the win.

Yes - predictable. Confusing in that what the hell is the point in this match?

Rey Rey and Punk was good while it lasted but too short, they did indeed exceed this in the following months.

This is my main issue. The whole PPV didn't seem like a Wrestlemania - Wrestlemania surely isn't an event for matches to be too short but rather this is supposed to be the end goal - a top match at the grandest stage.

The result wasn't disappointing in HHH-Sheamus as there would have been no reason for Sheamus to continue the feud and look stronger.

Continuing the fued seemed pointless to me, but I guess it was necessary after the two week build up. Sheamus to get a win at Wrestlemania would have really been good for him and his credibility, but I know how you disagree with my views about the importance of winning in wrestling, being that it is predetermined. However, I don't think continuing the fued did much for Sheamus - yes, he took out Triple H for a while, but no one really seems to care about that and also, the continuation of the fued was Sheamus sneak attacks with the bicycle kick, which have pretty much been his career, up until now.

Bret-vince was boring but made sense really - everyone wanted to see revenge and thus they got it.

I won't criticise WWE for this match, but it pained me to see Bret barely able to stand up as he moved ever to slowly around the ring, no longer able to take a bump. The stroke and concussion was a horrible way for him to go out and so in a way, perhaps I'm glad he has come back for a bit.

I loved Edge-Jericho, and of course the injured party created least offence. The Jericho win was a bit left-field but keeping the belt off Edge enabled his subsequent heel turn.

The main comment I took issue with was your labelling Cena-Batista rubbish, requesting clarification on this before I shout at you though

Nah, I won't expand. I called it rubbish because I fell asleep - no other justification. Alas, is this sort of baseless posting from me justified on an internet forum, I'm not sure, I just hope I'm not severely punished or imprisoned for it.

Frankly staggered that anyone could put 22 or 24 above this. 17 and 19 are probably the best two MAnias but 10, 21 and 26 are in contention as well, IMO.

You're showing your age advantage over me with Wrestlemania 10, 13 was the first one that I watched.

 

[GIMH]

What was the point of the triple threat? Serious? Did you watch Raw the prior fourteen months?

I don't think wins don't matter per se, just that wrestling should not be judged by just reading results. Therefore, I wouldn't have had a huge problem with Sheamus going over but there seems to be a trend online that the younger guy has to win. Why? Not everything has to be about elevation, and even so you can be elevated without winning, which Sheamus was. Also, could be wrong but I think it was a pipe which continued the feud.

There were only two matches which were too short, sadly that is a consequence of such a starstudded card.

As for old Manias, while my age advantage plays a part - let me introduce you to a new invention - DVDs. My appreciation of Flair's older work doesn't come from being around at the time, first I heard of him was his WWF entrance - you should do the same with old Manias etc, although not all of them!