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Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)
- Thread starter Jono
- Start date
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GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
So to take things old school for a minute, my mate and I have watched all of the E (or F, rather) PPVs from 01 over the last 4 or 5 months. Started discussing the best matches from the set last week and wound up picking a top ten between us. Given the amount of old-school fans there are that post in here I thought I'd post that list up and see what you all thought.
Note that it is PPV only so a couple of potential TV matches may make an overall top ten.
Honourable mentions
Royal Rumble (Royal Rumble) - One of the best actual Rumble matches there has been. Kane was bloody awesome in it and you had the hardcore element to fill what would normally be the quiet spots. A really good match, I think it's hard to rank any rumble that isn't the 92 one amongst the great matches and that's where it fall shorts.
Kurt Angle V Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-Seven) - They wrestled each other on a few shows on 01 and tbh a lot of the matches disappointed compared to what they would later produce. This one though was thrown onto Mania fairly late and was a short and crisp technical contest. Tells you a lot about the quality of match in 2001 that this doesn't make my top ten, it is hurt by comparison to the matches they had in 02/03, particularly the one at the Rumble.
Stone Cold V Undertaker (WWF title, Judgment Day) - Austin and Taker never really clicked that well together but here was one, with the typical roles reversed, Austin heel and Taker face. It's a step above a lot of what they did together in 98 and 99, a bloody brawl, heel Austin was more awesome than people give him credit for. Kane botched the run in at the end, think sledger mentioned it the other week.
Inaugural Brawl (InVasion) - A 5 on 5 for the start of the WWF v WCW/ECW war. The way the angle went down may have sucked in booking terms, but the matches were often good and this was a good way to get it going. Scores points for the Austin heel turn at the end, but isn't as good to the other 5 on 5 that closed the angle off.
Rob Van Dam V Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match, Hardcore title, Summerslam) - Most people see 2001 as the peak of RVD's career and I'd be inclined to agree. RVD and Jeff put a couple of fantastic matches on, some would call them spotfests but meh, they were entertaining and brutal. This was a really good match, but they had a better one a month earlier and the finish was kinda eh, presumably botched.
Kane V Triple H (Chain match, IC title, Judgment Day) - I've gotta be honest, when watching the 01 shows, we both looked at the card for Judgment Day and were like, ugh let's get this out of the way so we can watch awesome Angle at KOTR. As most of you know, I'm no big fan of Kane but he played a stormer in this one, having what for me was one of his best ever matches. He was of course up against pre-quad Triple H (by one night), a man at the absolute peak of his powers, he was off the charts good back then. If you haven't seen this (as it's not a famous match and not a universally one, bloody Dave Meltzer gave it less than three stars) then look it up on youtube or something, I'd be interested in your opinion.
Stone Cold V Chris Jericho V Chris Benoit (WWF title, King of the Ring) - This is pretty good and I imagine a lot of you love it. I enjoyed the whole thing but what hurts it a bit for me is having the heel outnumbered which really makes it hard for him to generate heat. If I'm not mistaken this is the one where Benoit got hurt and he was out for ages.
Undertaker V Rob Van Dam (Hardcore title, Vengeance) - Bloody brutal as RVD kept his invasion habit of having showstealers once the invasion was done. Taker had short hair here, it features a massive powerbomb from the stage. There's not a lot I didn't like about this one tbh and it's just a case that there were other matches which were better. This was Jericho's big night but this was the MOTN.
Stone Cold V Kurt Angle (WWF title, Unforgiven) - The Austin-Angle feud was off the charts good in 01 with Kurt getting over huge as a face. This one came in the wake of 9/11, in Kurt's hometown and provided a feelgood moment. It's a really, really good match, suffers for the same reason as the RVD-Jeff match above in that they did a better one the month before.
The Top Ten
10. Chris Jericho V The Rock (WCW title, No Mercy) - He's never won the big one! Well he did here. Jerichoholics rejoiced at this one as our hero won his first ever world title (well, except for that one that bastard Triple H got struck from the record in 2000). Jericho and Rock always put on great matches so it figured that they would when they got together, this was no exception. Some probably would bemoan Stephanie's involvement at the end but it made sense, and I loved the image of Jericho with his arms aloft, belt in one hand chair in the other, at the end.
9. Shane V Vince (Wrestlemania X-Seven) - Ha, not a technical classic or anything, I'm sure segments of the IWC will implode at me ranking this above Angle-Benoit from the same show (not to mention another much-loved match that on reflection I never even gave an honourable mention) but this is pro-wrestling and this had me on the edge of my seat at the time. Overbooked to perfection with the infamous Linda rise, Mr Socko and Shane throwing out 'coast to coast' for the first time, I loved this.
8. Rob Van Dam V Jeff Hardy (Hardcore title, InVasion) - Everything I said about the ladder match basically applies to this except this was better and didn't have the messy ending. Jeff was starting to get over as a singles guy and this was RVD's PPV debut in WWF. Even though he was on Team Alliance he was over as a face and that would be a constant throughout the invasion angle. This one is great, call it a spotfest if you want, who cares. Bischoff and Hogan will be happy if these two put a match together on PPV even half as good as this when the time comes.
7. Team WWF V Team Alliance (Survivor Series) - So the teams for this one are Rock, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane, Big Show V Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, RVD, Booker T & Shane0Mac. You know what, that line-up tells you exactly what was wrong with the invasion angle, one WCW and one ECW guy in what could have been the biggest match of all-time. It's a shame but as I've consistently said, it doesn't diminish the actual match quality we saw and this was no exception. Often in Survivor Series matches you see guys gotten rid of far earlier than is realistic but that wasn't the case here as it ran for 45 minutes.
Big Show was useless at this point but he didn't hang around too long, alas it took multiple finishers to get rid of him. Shane was on form as the annoying heel who keeps interrupting the ref's count. Jericho turned heel, Angle turned back face. RVD was great. And then it finished with Rock v Austin, which was obviously symbolism on Vince's part. I think this was the first time Rock ever pinned Stone Cold on PPV actually. Anyway, when Survivor Series matches are good they tend to be very good, this was excellent.
6. TLC II - (Tag titles, Wrestlemania X-Seven) - This doesn't need much of an introduction, we've probably all seen this 6 or 7 times. Each time you watch it you find new little spots that you haven't seen before as well as still being astounded by the big ones that everyone has seen. I love this match and it's a real advert for 01 that it doesn't even make the top five, I'm still not sure which of the three I like the best but I do tend to lean to the Mania 16 one (which wasn't labelled TLC but was in all but name).
5. Chris Jericho V Chris Benoit (Ladder match, IC title, Royal Rumble) - Another personal favourite, and a great display on why a ladder match doesn't have to be about the big spots. These two had great matches all through 2000 and this one kept them going in the same vein. The sight of Benoit bent over the ladder as Jericho pulled on his legs is one I remember making me sit up at the time, and who can forget the brutality of Benoit being met in midair by a chair to the head. Of course, watching that particular spot makes you a bit uneasy knowing what would happen. Jericho has a DVD set coming out in the autumn and it's a shame this (not to mention the Mania 16, Backlash, Judgment Day & Summerslam 2000 not to forget countless TV classics) won't be on there.
4. Kurt Angle V Stone Cold (WWF title, Summerslam) - I don't want to write too much about this one because I can't really do it justice with generic superlatives. Just go and watch it, it's everything a WWF title match should be. The amount of suplexes Angle hits in this one is unreal. The ending is sucky for the second biggest show of the year although of course they had another world title in the mixer for the first time so obviously felt they could do that. Alas, if it had the Unforgiven ending then I think this could be two places higher.
3. Kurt Angle V Shane McMahon (King of the Ring) - I've seen this mentioned heaps of times in this thread before, I know it's one you all love and for good reasons. Shane could really go in the ring, he should have been a full-time wrestler. Anyhow, who will ever forget the suplexes onto and then through the glass. Ouch.
2. Stone Cold V Triple H (3 stages of Hell, No Way Out) - Triple H at the peak of his powers was something special. This was violent and all about a grudge. It is about 40 minutes long, some people have said this should have headlined Mania - don't agree with that at all, but in any other era it was a bona fide Mania main event. I love the ending, Triple H getting the win makes so much sense in the context of what would eventually happen at Wrestlemania.
1. The Rock V Stone Cold (WWF title, Wrestlemania X-Seven) - I think personally that this is the greatest match of all-time and it has everything a great wrestling match should have. I know some people don't like the false finishes but the whole story is supposed to be that they just couldn't beat each other whatever they threw at one another. This was the crown jewel in the attitude era and ushered in a new generation in the WWF. The crowd was hot for it, mainly in favour of Austin given it being Texas but there was plenty of support for Rock as well. The intensity between the two was better than anything else I've seen in a wrestling ring. This was Hogan V Warrior for its generation yet so so so much better that it's not even close to funny. If there wasn't a match just started I'd watch this right now.
Well I didn't really mean to write that much and I've missed 18 minutes of Chile V Honduras. I imagine nobody will sit and read through all that but I had the time on my hands so meh. Please do let me know your thoughts, do you hate my choices, are you astonished that I've missed something out?
Note that it is PPV only so a couple of potential TV matches may make an overall top ten.
Honourable mentions
Royal Rumble (Royal Rumble) - One of the best actual Rumble matches there has been. Kane was bloody awesome in it and you had the hardcore element to fill what would normally be the quiet spots. A really good match, I think it's hard to rank any rumble that isn't the 92 one amongst the great matches and that's where it fall shorts.
Kurt Angle V Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania X-Seven) - They wrestled each other on a few shows on 01 and tbh a lot of the matches disappointed compared to what they would later produce. This one though was thrown onto Mania fairly late and was a short and crisp technical contest. Tells you a lot about the quality of match in 2001 that this doesn't make my top ten, it is hurt by comparison to the matches they had in 02/03, particularly the one at the Rumble.
Stone Cold V Undertaker (WWF title, Judgment Day) - Austin and Taker never really clicked that well together but here was one, with the typical roles reversed, Austin heel and Taker face. It's a step above a lot of what they did together in 98 and 99, a bloody brawl, heel Austin was more awesome than people give him credit for. Kane botched the run in at the end, think sledger mentioned it the other week.
Inaugural Brawl (InVasion) - A 5 on 5 for the start of the WWF v WCW/ECW war. The way the angle went down may have sucked in booking terms, but the matches were often good and this was a good way to get it going. Scores points for the Austin heel turn at the end, but isn't as good to the other 5 on 5 that closed the angle off.
Rob Van Dam V Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match, Hardcore title, Summerslam) - Most people see 2001 as the peak of RVD's career and I'd be inclined to agree. RVD and Jeff put a couple of fantastic matches on, some would call them spotfests but meh, they were entertaining and brutal. This was a really good match, but they had a better one a month earlier and the finish was kinda eh, presumably botched.
Kane V Triple H (Chain match, IC title, Judgment Day) - I've gotta be honest, when watching the 01 shows, we both looked at the card for Judgment Day and were like, ugh let's get this out of the way so we can watch awesome Angle at KOTR. As most of you know, I'm no big fan of Kane but he played a stormer in this one, having what for me was one of his best ever matches. He was of course up against pre-quad Triple H (by one night), a man at the absolute peak of his powers, he was off the charts good back then. If you haven't seen this (as it's not a famous match and not a universally one, bloody Dave Meltzer gave it less than three stars) then look it up on youtube or something, I'd be interested in your opinion.
Stone Cold V Chris Jericho V Chris Benoit (WWF title, King of the Ring) - This is pretty good and I imagine a lot of you love it. I enjoyed the whole thing but what hurts it a bit for me is having the heel outnumbered which really makes it hard for him to generate heat. If I'm not mistaken this is the one where Benoit got hurt and he was out for ages.
Undertaker V Rob Van Dam (Hardcore title, Vengeance) - Bloody brutal as RVD kept his invasion habit of having showstealers once the invasion was done. Taker had short hair here, it features a massive powerbomb from the stage. There's not a lot I didn't like about this one tbh and it's just a case that there were other matches which were better. This was Jericho's big night but this was the MOTN.
Stone Cold V Kurt Angle (WWF title, Unforgiven) - The Austin-Angle feud was off the charts good in 01 with Kurt getting over huge as a face. This one came in the wake of 9/11, in Kurt's hometown and provided a feelgood moment. It's a really, really good match, suffers for the same reason as the RVD-Jeff match above in that they did a better one the month before.
The Top Ten
10. Chris Jericho V The Rock (WCW title, No Mercy) - He's never won the big one! Well he did here. Jerichoholics rejoiced at this one as our hero won his first ever world title (well, except for that one that bastard Triple H got struck from the record in 2000). Jericho and Rock always put on great matches so it figured that they would when they got together, this was no exception. Some probably would bemoan Stephanie's involvement at the end but it made sense, and I loved the image of Jericho with his arms aloft, belt in one hand chair in the other, at the end.
9. Shane V Vince (Wrestlemania X-Seven) - Ha, not a technical classic or anything, I'm sure segments of the IWC will implode at me ranking this above Angle-Benoit from the same show (not to mention another much-loved match that on reflection I never even gave an honourable mention) but this is pro-wrestling and this had me on the edge of my seat at the time. Overbooked to perfection with the infamous Linda rise, Mr Socko and Shane throwing out 'coast to coast' for the first time, I loved this.
8. Rob Van Dam V Jeff Hardy (Hardcore title, InVasion) - Everything I said about the ladder match basically applies to this except this was better and didn't have the messy ending. Jeff was starting to get over as a singles guy and this was RVD's PPV debut in WWF. Even though he was on Team Alliance he was over as a face and that would be a constant throughout the invasion angle. This one is great, call it a spotfest if you want, who cares. Bischoff and Hogan will be happy if these two put a match together on PPV even half as good as this when the time comes.
7. Team WWF V Team Alliance (Survivor Series) - So the teams for this one are Rock, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane, Big Show V Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, RVD, Booker T & Shane0Mac. You know what, that line-up tells you exactly what was wrong with the invasion angle, one WCW and one ECW guy in what could have been the biggest match of all-time. It's a shame but as I've consistently said, it doesn't diminish the actual match quality we saw and this was no exception. Often in Survivor Series matches you see guys gotten rid of far earlier than is realistic but that wasn't the case here as it ran for 45 minutes.
Big Show was useless at this point but he didn't hang around too long, alas it took multiple finishers to get rid of him. Shane was on form as the annoying heel who keeps interrupting the ref's count. Jericho turned heel, Angle turned back face. RVD was great. And then it finished with Rock v Austin, which was obviously symbolism on Vince's part. I think this was the first time Rock ever pinned Stone Cold on PPV actually. Anyway, when Survivor Series matches are good they tend to be very good, this was excellent.
6. TLC II - (Tag titles, Wrestlemania X-Seven) - This doesn't need much of an introduction, we've probably all seen this 6 or 7 times. Each time you watch it you find new little spots that you haven't seen before as well as still being astounded by the big ones that everyone has seen. I love this match and it's a real advert for 01 that it doesn't even make the top five, I'm still not sure which of the three I like the best but I do tend to lean to the Mania 16 one (which wasn't labelled TLC but was in all but name).
5. Chris Jericho V Chris Benoit (Ladder match, IC title, Royal Rumble) - Another personal favourite, and a great display on why a ladder match doesn't have to be about the big spots. These two had great matches all through 2000 and this one kept them going in the same vein. The sight of Benoit bent over the ladder as Jericho pulled on his legs is one I remember making me sit up at the time, and who can forget the brutality of Benoit being met in midair by a chair to the head. Of course, watching that particular spot makes you a bit uneasy knowing what would happen. Jericho has a DVD set coming out in the autumn and it's a shame this (not to mention the Mania 16, Backlash, Judgment Day & Summerslam 2000 not to forget countless TV classics) won't be on there.
4. Kurt Angle V Stone Cold (WWF title, Summerslam) - I don't want to write too much about this one because I can't really do it justice with generic superlatives. Just go and watch it, it's everything a WWF title match should be. The amount of suplexes Angle hits in this one is unreal. The ending is sucky for the second biggest show of the year although of course they had another world title in the mixer for the first time so obviously felt they could do that. Alas, if it had the Unforgiven ending then I think this could be two places higher.
3. Kurt Angle V Shane McMahon (King of the Ring) - I've seen this mentioned heaps of times in this thread before, I know it's one you all love and for good reasons. Shane could really go in the ring, he should have been a full-time wrestler. Anyhow, who will ever forget the suplexes onto and then through the glass. Ouch.
2. Stone Cold V Triple H (3 stages of Hell, No Way Out) - Triple H at the peak of his powers was something special. This was violent and all about a grudge. It is about 40 minutes long, some people have said this should have headlined Mania - don't agree with that at all, but in any other era it was a bona fide Mania main event. I love the ending, Triple H getting the win makes so much sense in the context of what would eventually happen at Wrestlemania.
1. The Rock V Stone Cold (WWF title, Wrestlemania X-Seven) - I think personally that this is the greatest match of all-time and it has everything a great wrestling match should have. I know some people don't like the false finishes but the whole story is supposed to be that they just couldn't beat each other whatever they threw at one another. This was the crown jewel in the attitude era and ushered in a new generation in the WWF. The crowd was hot for it, mainly in favour of Austin given it being Texas but there was plenty of support for Rock as well. The intensity between the two was better than anything else I've seen in a wrestling ring. This was Hogan V Warrior for its generation yet so so so much better that it's not even close to funny. If there wasn't a match just started I'd watch this right now.
Well I didn't really mean to write that much and I've missed 18 minutes of Chile V Honduras. I imagine nobody will sit and read through all that but I had the time on my hands so meh. Please do let me know your thoughts, do you hate my choices, are you astonished that I've missed something out?
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
For some reason I never really got the three stages of hell match, I can't remember a great deal about it, but it did not strike me as an instant classic. I think I might have to rewatch it on youtube or something. All I really remember about that PPV was Big Show coming out and cleaning house in the WWF title match only for it never to be mentioned again... and the ref botching the ending and the Rock having a go at him. Good list though, will comment more on it a bit later. Would be interested in seeing a top ten of 2000 as well actually.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Haha, poor old Test. They tried to push him so hard on so many different occasions, but he failed all of them. Bit of a shame, always quite liked Test, but looking back it isn't really so much of a surprise that he didn't get over with the way he was being pushed. Needed to be kept as a bodyguard type character as he was in the corporation imo, would have always made a great part of a stable but never a great leader of one.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Haha, tbh I have probably only watched it through once, so my memory of it is very hazy and probably innacurate. Come to think of it I can't even recall who won the bloody thing. Off the top of my head for a match of 2000 though...I would have the Jericho vs HHH last man standing match from Fully Loaded pretty damn high, that is the one that immediately springs to mind.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
My view on the Daniel Bryan situation is that he has been released (he is taking indy bookings according to his twitter), but with full storyline intention to bring him back and have the IWC build up anticipation for such a moment with their suspicions that the whole thing was a work. Through being absent at a time where Barrett, and Barrett alone is getting pushed as an individual, he could probably build more momentum by not being there.
On NXT, I think the Riley and Kaval match was really pretty good, watching it just now. Kaval seems solid in the ring and unique with his strike based offense. I think Laycool suit him well, but just that it may cost him come time for the public vote. I reckon those two, Harris and Hennig all have star potential.
On NXT, I think the Riley and Kaval match was really pretty good, watching it just now. Kaval seems solid in the ring and unique with his strike based offense. I think Laycool suit him well, but just that it may cost him come time for the public vote. I reckon those two, Harris and Hennig all have star potential.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Kaval (Low-Ki) is a bit of a gun. His ring work can be really fantastic, shame his attitude stinks. Maybe he has worked on this since signing with WWE, but there were loads of bad stories going around about him a year or two back. I remember watching a match between him and Matt Stryker on an XPW DVD not all that long ago, pretty top drawer stuff. Matt Stryker severely underated in terms of in ring work imo.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Looks like Danielson is defo done with the E. Is now confirmed to appear at various indy shows for the next two months. Sad times, gutted about this. Had really hoped it was a work.
On an unrelated note, TNA have announced a few matches for the Victory Road PPV. This one has caught my eye...will be very interested in seeing how it goes...
On an unrelated note, TNA have announced a few matches for the Victory Road PPV. This one has caught my eye...will be very interested in seeing how it goes...
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Him taking indy bookings changes nothing in my eyes. The E will have sent him to do that to strengthen the story. And Matt Hardy went and wrestled in ROH in 05...
NXT was good. Loved the Kaval-Riley match. Didn't know what I expected from Riley but I liked him, and Kaval was awesome. And I loved Joe Hennig's finish in his match.
Like the way they're doing this series, looks like they've settled on a formula for it now. Of course, the way they did the first series has really helped with this invasion storyline.
Love the show tbh.
NXT was good. Loved the Kaval-Riley match. Didn't know what I expected from Riley but I liked him, and Kaval was awesome. And I loved Joe Hennig's finish in his match.
Like the way they're doing this series, looks like they've settled on a formula for it now. Of course, the way they did the first series has really helped with this invasion storyline.
Love the show tbh.
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