*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[Athlai]

I think in looking at the PPV tally and seeing that sort of Metric for who Vince booked as the guy. An interesting detail will be the absent names that felt like they were the important player in a particular time period. The period I outlined is pretty straightforward with Hogan being "the Guy", Savage having the occasional run to be that figure but not quite getting it besides when Hogan's injured, and then Warrior coming in for his relatively short run as the "new" guy. And of course the big heel draws of Piper/Andre/Million Dollar Man.

With so few shows it's pretty easy to see and understand who they present as the main attraction at that point in time.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

dcye link me to the noah match

NOAH were bought by the company that owns DDT so it's on DDT Universe if you have an account. Otherwise I have a billibilli link that I can send you but I would need a way to get it to you seeing as though it won't let me post it on your profile. Do you have a twitter?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Great match btw. 30 minute staredown was hilarious live.

 

[Spikey]

oh yeah i forgot that noah was purchased again

 

[Athlai]

Been chipping away at that PPV main event thing and been enjoying myself a lot. TIL HHH first PPV main event was also the first WWE PPV main event for Terry Funk, Savio Vega, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn.

 

[Athlai]

Scoring	
Wrestlemania Main event Win 5
Wrestlemania Main event	3
PPV Main event Win	2
PPV Main event	1
Royal Rumble Win	3
Draw/DQ win = same as win	
If MITB (or Hogan vs Yoko) occurs, the billed main event is the main event and gets the winner and particpation points, if MITB cash in occurs, only the MITB winner gets points) If Rumble goes on last then only Rumble victory points are recorded. #HoganMustPose

"The Guy"

1985	Hogan/Mr T
1986	Hogan
1987	Hogan
1988	Savage
1989	Hogan
1990	Warrior
1991	Hogan
1992	Hogan
1993	Yokozuna
1994	Bret Hart
1995	Diesel
1996	Shawn Michaels
1997	Shawn Michaels
1998	Stone Cold
1999	Stone Cold
2000	The Rock
2001	Stone Cold
2002	HHH
2003	Brock Lesnar
2004	Chris Benoit
2005	Batista
2006	John Cena

"Top Guys" - (2nd/3rd highest placed for the year, tied on points all included

1985	Piper/Orndorff
1986	King Kong Bundy/Bulldog/Dynamite Kid/Mr T
1987	Andre the Giant/Bundy/Rick Rude/One Man Gang/Butch Reed
1988	Ted DiBiase/Hogan
1989	Savage/Brutus Beefcake
1990	Hogan/Tito Santana
1991	Sgt Slaughter/The Road Warriors/Undertaker/Big Boss Man
1992	Flair/Bret Hart/Sid
1993	Hogan/Bret Hart
1994	Yokozuna/Undertaker
1995	Shawn Michaels/Bam Bam Bigelow/Lawrence Taylor
1996	Bret Hard/Sid
1997	Undertaker/Bret Hart/Stone Cold
1998	Undertaker/Mankind/Kane
1999	HHH/The Rock/Mr McMahon
2000	HHH/Kurt Angle
2001	The Rock/The Undertaker
2002	The Undertaker/Lesnar
2003	HHH/Goldberg
2004	HHH/Orton
2005	HHH/John Bradshaw Layfield
2006	King Booker/HHH/Rey Mysterio/Edge

Maybe my aversion to Booker as a top guy in WWE is that King Booker pretty much killed my interest in wrestling.

 

[Athlai]

The person with the most points to never appear in the top 3 so far is Jericho who is 19th overall in total points (total points skews super high for the late 90s onwards when they increase the PPVs to one a month) though I suspect he will creep into it in the late 2000s. Big Show and Lex Luger follow him.

 

[Athlai]

Scoring

Wrestlemania Main event Win 5
Wrestlemania Main event	3
PPV Main event Win	2
PPV Main event	1
Royal Rumble Win	3
Draw/DQ win = same as win	
MITB cash in after main event = 2 for winner but original event counted as normal
Saudi shows count but Greatest Royal Rumble only worth 2 point win
NXT and Network Exclusives do not count

"The Guy"

1985	Hogan/Mr T
1986	Hogan
1987	Hogan
1988	Savage
1989	Hogan
1990	Warrior
1991	Hogan
1992	Hogan
1993	Yokozuna
1994	Bret Hart
1995	Diesel
1996	Shawn Michaels
1997	Shawn Michaels
1998	Stone Cold
1999	Stone Cold
2000	The Rock
2001	Stone Cold
2002	HHH
2003	Brock Lesnar
2004	Chris Benoit
2005	Batista
2006	John Cena
2007	John Cena
2008	HHH
2009	HHH
2010	John Cena
2011	John Cena
2012	John Cena
2013	Randy Orton
2014	John Cena
2015	Seth Rollins
2016	Roman Reigns
2017	Roman Reigns
2018	Roman Reigns
2019	Seth Rollins

"Top Guys" - (2nd/3rd highest placed)

1985	Piper/Orndorff
1986	King Kong Bundy/Bulldog/Dynamite Kid/Mr T
1987	Andre the Giant/Bundy/Rick Rude/One Man Gang/Butch Reed
1988	Ted DiBiase/Hogan
1989	Savage/Brutus Beefcake
1990	Hogan/Tito Santana
1991	Sgt Slaughter/The Road Warriors/Undertaker/Big Boss Man
1992	Flair/Bret Hart/Sid
1993	Hogan/Bret Hart
1994	Yokozuna/Undertaker
1995	Shawn Michaels/Bam Bam Bigelow/Lawrence Taylor
1996	Bret Hard/Sid
1997	Undertaker/Bret Hart/Stone Cold
1998	Undertaker/Mankind/Kane
1999	HHH/The Rock/Mr McMahon
2000	HHH/Kurt Angle
2001	The Rock/The Undertaker
2002	The Undertaker/Lesnar
2003	HHH/Goldberg
2004	HHH/Orton
2005	HHH/John Bradshaw Layfield
2006	King Booker/HHH/Rey Mysterio/Edge
2007	The Undertaker/Shawn Michaels/Batista
2008	The Undertaker/Edge
2009	Randy Orton/Edge/CM Punk
2010	Edge/The Undertaker
2011	Del Rio/Miz
2012	CM Punk/The Rock
2013	John Cena/Daniel Bryan
2014	Randy Orton/Daniel Bryan
2015	Roman Reigns/Brock Lesnar
2016	Dean Ambrose/HHH/AJ Styles
2017	Brock Lesnar/Randy Orton/Braun Strowman/Samoa Joe
2018	Brock Lesnar/Braun Strowman
2019	Becky Lynch/Brock Lesnar

The highest rated person to ever not be the #1 "top guy" in a calendar year is The Undertaker, who ended up 3rd overall on points.

Most calendar year appearances in top 3

Wrestler	Years
HHH	10
Hulk Hogan	9
The Undertaker	8
John Cena	7
Brock Lesnar	6
Randy Orton	5
Bret Hart	5
Shawn Michaels	4
Stone Cold Steve Austin	4
The Rock	4
Roman Reigns	4
Edge	4

The Best of the Rest (2 points min.)

Chris Jericho	31
Big Show	20
Sheamus	17
Bray Wyatt	12
Jeff Hardy	10
Kevin Owens	10
Dolph Ziggler	9
Bobby Lashley	8
Baron Corbin	8
Rob Van Dam	7
Charlotte Flair	7
Lex Luger	7
Shane McMahon	6
Finn Balor	6
Owen Hart	6
Asuka	6
R-Truth	6
Wade Barrett	6
Ryback	5
Ronda Rousey	5
Shinsuke Nakamura	5
John Morrison	5
Eddie Guerrero	5
Jinder Mahal	5
Bubba Ray Dudley	4
D-Von Dudley	4
Jim Neidhart	4
Mark Henry	3
Cesaro	3
Ken Shamrock	3
Vader	3
Big John Studd	3
Kofi Kingston	2
Bobby Roode	2
Sami Zayn	2
Rusev	2
Christian	2
Umaga	2
Chris Masters	2
Carlito	2
Drew McIntyre	2
Shayna Baszler	2
Erick Rowan	2
John Laurinaitis	2
The Great Khali	2
Finlay	2
Maven	2
DDP	2
Rhyno	2
Rikishi	2
Terry Funk	2
Brian Pillman	2
Scott Steiner	2
Rick Steiner	2
Zeus	2
Marty Janetty	2
Koko B. Ware	2
Hillbilly Jim	2
Junkyard Dog	2

[B][U]Main Evented but only to lose[/U][/B]
[code]
Wrestlers
Lacey Evans
Mustafa Ali
Andrade
Ricochet
Kairi Sane
Bayley
Elias
Nikki Bella
Sasha Banks
Sting
Luke Harper
Darren Young
David Otunga
Heath Slater
Justin Gabriel
Michael Tarver
Skip Sheffield
Cody Rhodes
Ted DiBiase Jr
Mike Knox
Kenny
Johnny
Mitch
Mikey
Hardcore Holly
Test
Tommy Dreamer
The Sandman
Gene Snitsky
Paul Heyman
Savio Vega
Billy Gunn
Road Dogg
Goldust
Farooq
Ahmed Johnson
Tatanka
King Mabel
Jerry Lawler
Fake Undertaker
Crush
Quebeccer Jacques
Ludvig Borga
General Adnan
Col. Mustafa
IRS
Earthquake
Typhoon
Rick Martel
Paul Roma
Hercules
Rick Rude
Arn Anderson
Bobby Heenan
Akeem
Haku
The Red Rooster
Don Muraco
Ken Patera
Greg Valentine

[/code]

 

[honestbharani]

Just puts into perspective how insanely fast The Rock caught on fire. He just had 1 year as THE man but already transcended the industry itself in his popularity. A phenomenon worth studying, no doubt.

 

[Athlai]

Just puts into perspective how insanely fast The Rock caught on fire. He just had 1 year as THE man but already transcended the industry itself in his popularity. A phenomenon worth studying, no doubt.

To be fair 3 of the 4 years The Rock was one of the top guys, were the 3 peak years of wrestling ever.

 

[Kraken]

The Rock is the greatest example of why wrestlers should be allowed more creative freedoms, and allowed to be themselves. They always say the greatest characters are themselves, just turned up to 11. Rocky Maivia sucked, and was dying a horrible death. Was allowed to turn heel, and in doing so, it let out all his personality. Boom, one of the greatest entertainers and personalities of our time was born.

 

[Athlai]

My personal ranking of "The Guys" throughout the eras

Stone Cold Steve Austin - The Guy
The Rock - ATG
John Cena - ATG
Hulk Hogan - ATG
Randy Savage - ATG
Brock Lesnar - the greatest "special attraction" ever IMO.
Bret Hart - yes he is above Michaels in my list. I actually don't think he is a better wrestler than Shawn but I do think he felt like more of a champion. Every kid wanted those ****ing glasses. He was cool and he was in the ****ing Simpsons. Nuff said.
Shawn Michaels - Not quite his best role in wrestling but he was certainly someone that made you believe at times
Roman Reigns - a bit of daylight has opened up here. Roman looks like the real thing and he often wrestles like it but the rest of his stuff is often pretty average.
HHH - One year at the top during the decline of wrestling and multiple during the worst period in decades. B+ player
Seth Rollins - his heel year at the top was gun, his face year at the top was dreadful, he is back to being a heel major player so the future could be bright. Could see him end up higher than Michaels as "the guy" even if he will never wrestle as good as him.
Chris Benoit - what a year this was but equally he was never anything outside that year really. Its hard to not want to shove him to the bottom after his heinous actions.
Batista - I like Batista more as a person than a wrestler, he is believable, he is solid in the ring, he has a great look but I've never seen him as THE top guy.
Randy Orton - I like Randy Orton more as a wrestler than a person, and I don't really like him as a wrestler.
Ultimate Warrior - Proof that people were stupider in the past.
Diesel - The first true "failure" of a Top Guy in the Wrestlemania era. He was 10x better as Kevin Nash and I don't know if I'd even put Kevin Nash in the top half of this list.
Yokozuna - was never the guy just them trying to reinvent a special attraction like Andre

 

[duffer]

We're polar opposites in our opinions on many things pro wrestling but that was a good read mate. Enjoyed it.

 

[honestbharani]

I dunno.. I will put Hogan, Austin and The Rock all at the same level, you know. And Cena just below them. And Bret and Shawn below Cena at the same level, as guys who kept the boat sailing inspite of strong winds against. I don't think I will put Lesnar anywhere near those guys and he has been horribly used since WM 30 when he needlessly broke the streak. This monster and unbeatable heel things are only good when they get their comeuppance and Lesnar's is the best example of why it is never a great idea? Its a fail safe at best when you are struggling but if you don't use it to launch your next big babyface, it always falls flat, like it has done for WWE since WM 30. I will try to post detailed observations for each later but these are my broad thoughts on this subject.

 

[Malcolm]

Mt Rushmore of WWE

Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
Stone Cold
Shawn Michaels

 

[Athlai]

Mt Rushmore of WWE

Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
Stone Cold
Shawn Michaels

If I did a Mt Rushmore I don’t know if I could keep the “Mr McMahon” character out of it. For the ludicrous larger than life character style wwe has, is there anyone better than him? One half of the greatest feud of all time and whether or not his ideas as a booker are good, my God, that man is just so incredible to see on your screen. He’s ****ing insane and legitimately one of the most interesting people in the world imo.

WWE Rushmore

Stone Cold
Hulk Hogan
Mr McMahon
John Cena

 

[sledger]

If I did a Mt Rushmore I don’t know if I could keep the “Mr McMahon” character out of it. For the ludicrous larger than life character style wwe has, is there anyone better than him? One half of the greatest feud of all time and whether or not his ideas as a booker are good, my God, that man is just so incredible to see on your screen. He’s ****ing insane and legitimately one of the most interesting people in the world imo.

WWE Rushmore

Stone Cold
Hulk Hogan
Mr McMahon
John Cena

Yeah, I think he's absolutely lost the plot these days, but fully agree with the bold. He is genuinely incomparable imo.

 

[GIMH]

My personal ranking of "The Guys" throughout the eras

Stone Cold Steve Austin - The Guy
The Rock - ATG
John Cena - ATG
Hulk Hogan - ATG
Randy Savage - ATG
Brock Lesnar - the greatest "special attraction" ever IMO.
Bret Hart - yes he is above Michaels in my list. I actually don't think he is a better wrestler than Shawn but I do think he felt like more of a champion. Every kid wanted those ****ing glasses. He was cool and he was in the ****ing Simpsons. Nuff said.
Shawn Michaels - Not quite his best role in wrestling but he was certainly someone that made you believe at times
Roman Reigns - a bit of daylight has opened up here. Roman looks like the real thing and he often wrestles like it but the rest of his stuff is often pretty average.
HHH - One year at the top during the decline of wrestling and multiple during the worst period in decades. B+ player
Seth Rollins - his heel year at the top was gun, his face year at the top was dreadful, he is back to being a heel major player so the future could be bright. Could see him end up higher than Michaels as "the guy" even if he will never wrestle as good as him.
Chris Benoit - what a year this was but equally he was never anything outside that year really. Its hard to not want to shove him to the bottom after his heinous actions.
Batista - I like Batista more as a person than a wrestler, he is believable, he is solid in the ring, he has a great look but I've never seen him as THE top guy.
Randy Orton - I like Randy Orton more as a wrestler than a person, and I don't really like him as a wrestler.
Ultimate Warrior - Proof that people were stupider in the past.
Diesel - The first true "failure" of a Top Guy in the Wrestlemania era. He was 10x better as Kevin Nash and I don't know if I'd even put Kevin Nash in the top half of this list.
Yokozuna - was never the guy just them trying to reinvent a special attraction like Andre

Good read and won't quibble over much placement but Triple H's first year at the top was under no circumstances decline. It was the absolute peak of wrestling.

Unless you're counting 2002 as his first year at the top, I guess

 

[GIMH]

Scrolled up and see you're counting 2002.

 

[Athlai]

Scrolled up and see you're counting 2002.

I think HHH was better in 2000 and 2001 then he was in 2002 but it's the absence of two of the absolute best ever that opened it up for him in 2002. It definitely felt like when the magic started to fade but wrestling still felt so much bigger than it does now.