**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

[Blocky]

Neither does Neil Wagner. Ouch.

Maybe going for runs is irrelevant when he took more wickets than ooh lets see, every other bowler put together.

Yet with irony, Wagner is one of our better bowlers of reverse swing and remains dangerous pretty much any time he bowls, unlike Boult who really has become the definition of a new ball bowler.

And again, talking about Sodhi taking wickets when the other team were 750 for 5 and the wickets he got really came due to the other team trying to score quick runs and playing slog shots across the line or being tired after already plundering a century just doesn't compute. Like I've said several times, it's his best game in an NZ Shirt, but he's still only really a 4 out of 10 for the performance which again is complete reason why he should not even be in the side, his peak performance in conditions that suited spin bowling still had him going at 73 per wicket.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

No, to be honest, most of them would be surprised I'm not flat out insulting people for being so sensitive over discussion on cricket, because they're actually cricketers who come from the same environment I did where growing up, insulting one another was one of the ways you showed your mateship.

Do you see me getting my nose out of joint when people throw insults my way? Do you see me getting sensitive over people saying "Well you're wrong and stupid for thinking that way?" - I took endless amounts of **** over Wagner, didn't phase me in the slightest. But like I said, I won't bother responding to posts like this, I only respond to yours because I have respect for you, from this point on, the moment it becomes about "Blocky" and not Cricket - I'm just going to use the report feature. Petty I know, but it'll likely stop the bull**** arguments and the repeated assertions from people such as yourself that I'm the devil and apparently have learnt how to tango without anyone else being involved.

Ooh man i must pity all those north island pace bowlers you help mentor. If your posting here is representative of how you insult your mates, then you represent everything that is wrong with masculine culture.

Nine tenths of the fun on this forum is taking the piss out of each other, without the people on here, the cricket discussion would be that of ****** *******. To put things blunty, the forum atmosphere turns to **** when you show up, and yes part of that is the fault of the rest of us (me being a main culprit). From memory when you first starting posting again, you rubbished us for saying Boult could swing it both ways (when we had video evidence showing otherwise), and ripped into us when we rubbished Wagner, who was rubbish at the time. We attack you because its pointless talking cricket with you.

 

[sledger]

Ooh man i must pity all those north island pace bowlers you help mentor. If your posting here is representative of how you insult your mates, then you represent everything that is wrong with mescaline culture.

Um...

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Yet with irony, Wagner is one of our better bowlers of reverse swing and remains dangerous pretty much any time he bowls, unlike Boult who really has become the definition of a new ball bowler.

And again, talking about Sodhi taking wickets when the other team were 750 for 5 and the wickets he got really came due to the other team trying to score quick runs and playing slog shots across the line or being tired after already plundering a century just doesn't compute. Like I've said several times, it's his best game in an NZ Shirt, but he's still only really a 4 out of 10 for the performance which again is complete reason why he should not even be in the side, his peak performance in conditions that suited spin bowling still had him going at 73 per wicket.

If you had watched the game you would of seen that he beat the bat more than all the other bowlers put together and had several catches dropped of him. As you didn't watch the game but pretend to be the expert on all things New Zealand cricket related, you are an idiot. It is ironic that none of the other bowlers could take wickets, even when they were being slogged.

Look Blocky, learn to read, and a lot of our problems will dissapear, Re: whether sodhi should be in the side or not

 

[Daemon]

Neither does Neil Wagner. Ouch.

Maybe going for runs is irrelevant when he took more wickets than ooh lets see, every other bowler put together.

Wagner's got nothing to do with this, classic case of WW here

 

[Athlai]

Things are getting spicy all of a sudden.

 

[cnerd123]

Can't you read?! He specifically said he was NOT getting emotional.

Was it a dream or did we have a nice conversation based on this in the style of Blocky's posting? Cause I can't find the posts.

Anyways to keep this on topic - Sodhi vs. Wagner will make no difference in terms of actual results IMO. The pitches are too flat and they both lack the skills to best utilise the conditions. Advantage of Sodhi is that, being a spinner, he can bowl tons of overs and occasionally get purchase out of the pitch. Wagner will lose pace and zip as the innings progresses. Sodhi can clearly bat too.

Replace Sodhi with Craig if it is him that you are thinking about dropping,

You could burden Neesham and Anderson with more overs if you choose to play Wagner instead of one of the spinners, but you risk tiring them out and affecting their batting.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Um...

was autocorrect tbf.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

We could really use a moeen ali. Hurry up and develop santner.

 

[sledger]

Things are getting spicy all of a sudden.

Yes, various people have peppered the conversation.

 

[Athlai]

Wagner's got nothing to do with this, classic case of WW here

Wagner is the proposed alternative, it's relevant.

 

[sledger]

Was it a dream or did we have a nice conversation based on this in the style of Blocky's posting? Cause I can't find the posts.

Look harder ffs.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Wagner's got nothing to do with this, classic case of WW here

best thing is WW thinks Wagner is crap too.

 

[Daemon]

Wagner is the proposed alternative, it's relevant.

The conversation was whether or not Sodhi is affecting the chances of the others getting reverse swing, not about whether Sodhi or Wagner was worse at scuffing up the ball.

 

[the big bambino]

I don't know about the mechanics at all but we've seen reverse from guys bowling anywhere in the low 120s to high 140s, so I don't know how true that study's conclusion is (assuming you or your source is referring to the one with the diagrams and funny wind tunnel shenanigans) wrt to the speeds needed for reverse at least. No idea about what release is optimal for reverse, but it could be learnt right? Dunno really.

Anyways the lines between learning a skill and talent are a bit blurred imo. Something like swing could be natural to someone and thus a talent but to another it could be a skill learnt through practice.

You had both examples of a skill being acquired in the one man. WE Bowes had natural inswing but learned to bowl the outswinger after reading an instruction manual from Herbert Sutcliffe.

 

[Blocky]

If you had watched the game you would of seen that he beat the bat more than all the other bowlers put together and had several catches dropped of him. As you didn't watch the game but pretend to be the expert on all things New Zealand cricket related, you are an idiot. It is ironic that none of the other bowlers could take wickets, even when they were being slogged.

Look Blocky, learn to read, and a lot of our problems will dissapear, Re: whether sodhi should be in the side or not

I did watch the game, the problem is that you seem to think me saying "Sodhi bowled his best in an NZ uniform" is somehow an insult, Sodhi did NOT beat the bat constantly, no NZ bowler (with the exception of Craig on the first day, being extremely unlucky with Watling making uncharacteristic errors) ever seemed to be putting pressure on the Pakistani batsmen. Anderson bowled very well in spurts but ultimately, how are you claiming that Sodhi bowled well with the match return he had and the fact that the Pakistanis only got out to him when attempting slog sweeps, etc?

The ball he got Azhar with was a good ball, but a tired shot... in the mean time we're all rubbishing McCullum and Taylor getting out in the way they did, but the reality is their dismissals were as much about the batsman as Azhar's was.

"Sodhi beat the bat more than any other bowler" - I disagree.

"None of the other bowlers could take wickets" - I disagree, Watling missed two catches and a stumping off of Craig in short succession, those batsmen went on to bat most of the day.

"He had several catches dropped off of him" - I disagree. I can recall one dropped catch from Sodhi, but no more than that. I also can remember countless balls being bowled too full and being dispatched through the field, and countless balls being dropped too short to be tucked around the corner for easy strike rotation, etcetera.

You're backing up Sodhi... after he went at over four an over across a test match, taking wickets at an average of 73... as Pakistan put 750 runs on for 5 wickets. Just read that statement a couple of times. This is Sodhi's best performance for NZ, in conditions that their leg spinner was all over us in.... and he only generated three chances, across 220 runs.

 

[Daemon]

You had both examples of a skill being acquired in the one man. WE Bowes had natural inswing but learned to bowl the outswinger after reading an instruction manual from Herbert Sutcliffe.

I assume that goes for tons of other bowlers as well. Lots of guys get inswing naturally but learn to swing it the other way.

 

[cnerd123]

Look harder ffs.

I'm looking **** but all I see is a alleged former pro bashing on cricketers ten times as talented as he allegedly was.

Whether Sodhi or Wagner plays makes no difference to if NZ get reverse swing or not. Pakistan are playing two spinners and are getting reverse just fine. It's just about maintain the ball in the field, and the bowlers own skills. So unless Wagner has unexpectedly dry hands and is a master of keeping one side of the ball super shiny, he will make no difference.

 

[Athlai]

The conversation was whether or not Sodhi is affecting the chances of the others getting reverse swing, not about whether Sodhi or Wagner was worse at scuffing up the ball.

And a change would naturally mean the merits of the replacements own benefits in that field should be examined right? Wags the ball killer ain't helping no one.

 

[sledger]

I'm looking **** but all I see is a alleged former pro bashing on cricketers ten times as talented as he allegedly was.

I am not sure who you are referring to. Please rephrase.

Also, I appreciate your continued gestures of friendship.