**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

[Daemon]

Nobody's saying that; all they're saying is that Wagner scuffs up the ball just as much as (if not more than) Sodhi, so advocating his selection on those grounds is utterly brainless. It's completely specious reasoning to use that as a positive for Wagner's inclusion. And it's not like there's a short list of reasons why Wagner should be picked ahead of Sodhi.

Well Blocky never said it's a something to add to the list of reasons to pick Wagner over Sodhi either.

 

[Blocky]

Nobody's saying that; all they're saying is that Wagner scuffs up the ball just as much as (if not more than) Sodhi, so advocating his selection on those grounds is utterly brainless. It's completely specious reasoning to use that as a positive for Wagner's inclusion. And it's not like there's a short list of reasons why Wagner should be picked ahead of Sodhi.

A: Wagner isn't actually that bad, it's just in comparison with Boult and Southee who both present the seam with perfect metronomic consistency that he looks bad.

B: The conversation wasn't about Wagner's inclusion, the conversation was about Pakistan getting more reverse than NZ did, to which point I mentioned the fact that our spinners (both of them) both tended to tumble the seam, rather than keep it consistent and perpendicular like the Pakistani bowlers were.

C: No one even mentioned Wagner being selected instead of Sodhi, until it was pointed out it was a WWism.

D: If Wagner is that bad for the ball, why does he get more reverse swing than Boult and Southee and also get it earlier, in about the 45th over versus about the 60th for the other two?

 

[Blocky]

Everyone agrees that Wagner gets the next game. Lets just argue about the merits of Sodhi vs Craig. Or preferably, lets not.

Select neither, put Rutherford and Brownlie in there instead - our bowling attack won't suffer and we may have a chance of batting long enough to see the second new ball.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Both Pakistani quicks presented the seam 95% as well as Southee and Boult did. Immaculate seam presentation should be the bread and butter of any swing or seam bowler.

 

[dermo]

Nobody's saying that; all they're saying is that Wagner scuffs up the ball just as much as (if not more than) Sodhi, so advocating his selection on those grounds is utterly brainless. It's completely specious reasoning to use that as a positive for Wagner's inclusion. And it's not like there's a short list of reasons why Wagner should be picked ahead of Sodhi.

dont get passive aggressive with me boi

 

[Prince EWS]

Select neither, put Rutherford and Brownlie in there instead - our bowling attack won't suffer and we may have a chance of batting long enough to see the second new ball.

Going into a UAE Test with Ross Taylor as your best spinner would certainly be a bold move.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Select neither, put Rutherford and Brownlie in there instead - our bowling attack won't suffer and we may have a chance of batting long enough to see the second new ball.

I'm assuming you meant Ronchi? Look 550 was bad enough, we don't want to be chasing 900

 

[Blocky]

Going into a UAE Test with Ross Taylor as your best spinner would certainly be a bold move.

I'd back him to take 3 for 220... Brownlie also can bowl offies, Watling can bowl offies too, so get Baz behind the stumps.

 

[Blocky]

I'm assuming you meant Ronchi? Look 550 was bad enough, we don't want to be chasing 900

For some reason I thought Brownlie made the squad... yeah, put in Ronchi, I figure he can probably bowl too.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

This is the Brownlie who Ish Sodhi can work over we are talking about?

 

[vic_orthdox]

From the parts I watched, difference between the two bowlers was summed up by the fact that Craig went for more runs per over, even though he only went for half the amount of boundaries as Sodhi, who bowled ten more overs. Craig didn't bowl the bad balls that Sodhi did, but they milked him so easily without taking a risk. The Pakistanis did exactly the same to Lyon, neither could get six balls at the same batsman the whole time. I think as an antipodean off-spinner bowling to these guys in these conditions, it's really just money for jam.

First time I'd seen Sodhi and he looked like a decent raw legspinner - he gave the loose ball to hit a bit too regularly, and doesn't understand how/when to use his tricks, but his stock ball kept them honest more than Craig's.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Better yet play Guptill at 8. Worked in ICC 2013.

 

[Dan]

Get Nick Compton eligible IMO. Was a genuine all-rounder for me in an ICC 2010 save (admittedly in List A cricket only, but still).

 

[Gnske]

Get Nick Compton eligible IMO. Was a genuine all-rounder for me in an ICC 2010 save (admittedly in List A cricket only, but still).

Or Cowan, was reduced in one of my 2013 ICC saves to Tasmania's full time spinner at no8.

 

[Energetic]

New Zealand are a good team but there's no hiding of the fact that their batsman can't play spin and bar Vettori lack any serious quality spinners. That Patel guy looks good but he's clearly overlooked by New Zealand management. Maybe Nathan McCullum for tests??? its not only that but the humid conditions in that part of the world is also hard for countries like New Zealand to handle I think unless New Zealand weather is just like Australia's.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Hesson to open (he's younger than Misbah btw), BMac back to 5, and Wiseman as spinner. Maybe give Shane Bond the new ball (younger than Misbah as well). Can't be worse than the 1st test.

 

[hendrix]

instead of Sodhi, until it was pointed out it was a WWism.

D: If Wagner is that bad for the ball, why does he get more reverse swing than Boult and Southee and also get it earlier, in about the 45th over versus about the 60th for the other two?

You keep saying this but it's not true. Wagner barely ever reverses the ball in a NZ shirt. Southee is the only one who consistently does.

As for Sodhi scuffing up the ball - again, not true. His seam position was better in this test than Yasir's.

 

[Blocky]

You keep saying this but it's not true. Wagner barely ever reverses the ball in a NZ shirt. Southee is the only one who consistently does.

As for Sodhi scuffing up the ball - again, not true. His seam position was better in this test than Yasir's.

You keep saying this, but it's not true. Wagner reverses the ball constantly and it's one of the weapons Shane Bond talks about him having as being different to Boult and Southee.

As for the "Sodhi in better position than Yasir" - Yeah, Ok.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Its true but its not saying much, Yasir had terrible seam position. Get Jeets back in the side i say.

Maybe in your world Blocky. Seeing Bond never talks to the press, i assume you mean Hesson, and he is an expert at managerial speak.

 

[Blocky]

Cricket: Wagner in swing of things - Sport - NZ Herald News - Fact

Neil Wagner | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo - Fact
"A left-arm seamer, Neil Wagner is among several South African-born recruits plying their trade in New Zealand. Although not express pace, Wagner's strength is his ability to swing the ball. Once known only for his new-ball exploits, Wagner has added reverse swing to his repertoire to become a more complete bowler, capable of taking wickets even in unhelpful conditions"

Neil Wagner - Fact
Neil “Wags” Wagner is known for his fierce never say die attitude with the ball. The South African-born left arm seamer can also produce reverse swing, making him an exciting new comer to the New Zealand squad. He is capable of taking wickets when they are needed most and even in the most batter friendly conditions.