*** Official *** Pakistan in India

[Perm]

I hope that was not aimed at me, I have not once said that any of the team's batsmen, except Jaffer, should be dropped and I have good reasons to doubt Jaffer with an average of just 35.14 after 23 Test matches.

No, it wasn't aimed at you, but those fools Kaiser and funnygirl, not to mention the numerous other spasmodic posters who regularly try and put down the Indian batsmen.

I wouldn't change the batting lineup, because they've worked very well since Jaffer, Karthik and Ganguly returned to Test cricket. Given that Tendulkar found form in England, Laxman has been solid lately and Dravid is arguably the best batsmen India has produced, then I think India are looking in good shape at the moment.

 

[Perm]

Really, I am not sure if they analyze and value things such as Chopra's occupation of the crease and taking the shine off the new ball as much as some of us here on CW do.

I've no doubt they don't.

 

[biased indian]

Karthik looked terrible in this Test, imo. Would not at all be surprised to see that average plummet.

Give him time its only one test rite....by the end of series you will get an idea..if he is dismissed all the time like that ya we will have to look for some other person to go to australia..if he have 2 decnt performance say 70+..i think i will take him to austrlia rather than having anew opener in aganisy australia

 

[jeevan]

Will it be Munaf again for the second test?

Hope not, though he didnt do anything very poor. Even fielded OK.
I hope (in vain, Ishant is the squad guy) they try Pathan. May not have
his inswinger, but apparently has more control now.

Plus the tail would be the strongest it's been for a while now with
Pathan-Kumble-Harbhajan-Zaheer.

 

[funnygirl]

No, it wasn't aimed at you, but those fools Kaiser and funnygirl, not to mention the numerous other spasmodic posters who regularly try and put down the Indian batsmen.

I wouldn't change the batting lineup, because they've worked very well since Jaffer, Karthik and Ganguly returned to Test cricket. Given that Tendulkar found form in England, Laxman has been solid lately and Dravid is arguably the best batsmen India has produced, then I think India are looking in good shape at the moment.

No need to call me a fool just because i consider Indian batting ''over hyped ''. yes it is .The fact is that all those players past their best and started slowing down . i don't keep very high expectation .

 

[Raghav]

No need to call me a fool just because i consider Indian batting ''over hyped ''. yes it is .The fact is that all those players past their best and started slowing down . i don't keep very high expectation .

I agree with you completely

 

[gettingbetter]

I'd consider bringing Chopra in if one of the current two has a rough trot, but certainly not now.

I'm not exactly sure how many people are actually supporting this, but I hope it doesn't become the next 'only if we had Tresco/Jones' type of phrase.

For clarification, both quotes are highly unlikely.

 

[gettingbetter]

I wouldn't change the batting lineup, because they've worked very well since Jaffer, Karthik and Ganguly returned to Test cricket. Given that Tendulkar found form in England, Laxman has been solid lately and Dravid is arguably the best batsmen India has produced, then I think India are looking in good shape at the moment.

Its a tough situation I must say and I do believe what you say, but I think looking at it from a certain persepctive helps. As far as I'm concerned, there are two prominent ones that being; 1) the players aren't performing 2 bring in new blood.

I'm quite a supporter of the latter, but all the Indian batsmen have strong cases, but when you have guys like Yuvraj, Gambhir, Sehwag, Badrinath, Raina and a few others knocking on the door, its hard not to raise there names. But as I said in a previous posst in this thread, an average of 50 in Indian domestic cricket is unrepresentative of the player's calibre.

I'd like to see the openers persisted with, they meet the needs of quality openers (pending on 5-10 more Test) as well as the invisible youth policy India/fans of cricket want to see introduced into the team. Dravid and Tendulkar, pardon the cliche, but the names say it all.

Ganguly and Laxman seem, in my eyes, the most likely to go if something radical were to happen (this is in regards to the incumbents). Both in recent years have never really cemented a place in the team, but with their recent form, its hard to make excuses for any of the other guys to be included (other than age).

In saying that, I'd like to see Badrinath in for Ganguly and yes, I am aware of Ganguly's recent form.

 

[Perm]

No need to call me a fool just because i consider Indian batting ''over hyped ''. yes it is .The fact is that all those players past their best and started slowing down . i don't keep very high expectation .

Apologies, I didn't see this post of yours and from the others I had read, it seemed you were intent to criticize anything you could with regards to India's batting.

 

[gettingbetter]

No need to call me a fool just because i consider Indian batting ''over hyped ''. yes it is .The fact is that all those players past their best and started slowing down . i don't keep very high expectation .

But the question is whether the current batting line up, who as you say, is past their best and better than those coming in.

 

[pasag]

I'm not exactly sure how many people are actually supporting this, but I hope it doesn't become the next 'only if we had Tresco/Jones' type of phrase.

For clarification, both quotes are highly unlikely.

I can't see the comparison, personally.

 

[Perm]

Its a tough situation I must say and I do believe what you say, but I think looking at it from a certain persepctive helps. As far as I'm concerned, there are two prominent ones that being; 1) the players aren't performing 2) bring in new blood.

I'm quite a supporter of the latter, but all the Indian batsmen have strong cases, but when you have guys like Yuvraj, Gambhir, Sehwag, Badrinath, Raina and a few others knocking on the door, its hard not to raise there names. But as I said in a previous posst in this thread, an average of 50 in Indian domestic cricket is unrepresentative of the player's calibre.

I'd like to see the openers persisted with, they meet the needs of quality openers (pending on 5-10 more Test) as well as the invisible youth policy India/fans of cricket want to see introduced into the team. Dravid and Tendulkar, pardon the cliche, but the names say it all.

Ganguly and Laxman seem, in my eyes, the most likely to go if something radical were to happen (this is in regards to the incumbents). Both in recent years have never really cemented a place in the team, but with their recent form, its hard to make excuses for any of the other guys to be included (other than age).

In saying that, I'd like to see Badrinath in for Ganguly and yes, I am aware of Ganguly's recent form.

Excellent post.

I'm well aware that there are a number of options for India, such as those names you mentioned, but I'm of the opinion that you can't drop a player unless he isn't performing to a high enough standard. At the moment, none of the Indian top 7 deserve to be dropped, even though batsmen like Yuvraj Singh and S Badrinath do deserve a chance to play Test cricket.

Whilst not to the same extent, the situation is becoming slightly like what has been happening in Australia for the last 10-15 years whereby they quite a few quality batsmen who are missing out on Test cricket, despite consistently scoring big runs in domestic cricket. I wouldn't hesitate in saying that Yuvraj, Chopra, Sehwag and Badrinath would probably find themselves in most Test sides in the world at the moment, yet because of the way the Indian team is playing, find themselves sitting on the sidelines.

I do get annoyed with some people saying "Yuvraj must be in the side" or "Ganguly should be dropped", because quite frankly they are wrong. None of the current Indian batsmen deserves to lose their place on form alone. In their last ten Tests they have averaged as follows.

Karthik (since openening) - 45.25
Jaffer - 33.05
Dravid - 36.88
Tendulkar - 45.47
Ganguly - 42.23
Laxman - 47.14
Dhoni - 38.92

Wasim Jaffer isn't in the best of form, but since he was given a solid run as Test opener, beginning with this game, he has averaged 41.89. Rahul Dravid is also in a slump, but I think you need to back a batsmen of his quality that he will get through the rut and continue to score heavily, as we have seen in the past. Karthik, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman and Dhoni don't have any case for being dropped.

 

[gettingbetter]

I can't see the comparison, personally.

The likelihood of Tresco, Jones and Chopra playing international cricket is highly unlikely.

Just gets on my nerves a bit when Tresco and Jones are metioned prior to England squad selection. I just havea feeling the same is going to occur with Chopra.

 

[adharcric]

The likelihood of Tresco, Jones and Chopra playing international cricket is highly unlikely.

Just gets on my nerves a bit when Tresco and Jones are metioned prior to England squad selection. I just havea feeling the same is going to occur with Chopra.

Disagree. Chopra was finally awarded a central contract this year, a strong indication that he's actually in contention right now.

 

[shortpitched713]

The likelihood of Tresco, Jones and Chopra playing international cricket is highly unlikely.

Just gets on my nerves a bit when Tresco and Jones are metioned prior to England squad selection. I just havea feeling the same is going to occur with Chopra.

I don't see why Tresco being mentioned for England selection would get on your nerves. Hes a very deserving candidate who has served England well for many years. Had a case to get in for Strauss, but I'm not sure if hes ready yet. Would definitely get him in the ODI side as soon as he is fit.

 

[pasag]

The likelihood of Tresco, Jones and Chopra playing international cricket is highly unlikely.

Just gets on my nerves a bit when Tresco and Jones are metioned prior to England squad selection. I just havea feeling the same is going to occur with Chopra.

I don't think they are mentioned very much anymore. Even Jones wasn't brought up much in last year's Ashes and Treschotick hasn't been mentioned since the start of the WI series from what I've seen - ever since he said he wasn't ready to come back and he might never be. I think you'll find most English fans (around here anyways, because thats all I have to go by really) don't bring them up and certainly dont blame current losses on them.

And as I said, Chopra is different. If he's carving it up in FC cricket and not getting picked for someone worse, then Indian fans would have the right to complain at his non-selection, to some extent. Especially if the guy keeping him out fails.

 

[gettingbetter]

Disagree. Chopra was finally awarded a central contract this year, a strong indication that he's actually in contention right now.

News to me. Its good to see him get recognised, but I am still indifferent towards him. Last time I saw him, which was in Australia, he was strong but not spectacular. Also add the fact that Sehwag and Gambhir are probably ahead of him to get a birth in the team, I still support it when I say it is highly unlikely for him to get a place.

 

[gettingbetter]

I don't see why Tresco being mentioned for England selection would get on your nerves. Hes a very deserving candidate who has served England well for many years. Had a case to get in for Strauss, but I'm not sure if hes ready yet. Would definitely get him in the ODI side as soon as he is fit.

I agrre whole-heartedly on everything you just wrote. Tresco is probbly my favourite England player bar Cook and once again, I agree that he is a deserving candidate. But the bolded highlights really do irk me. And that is simply the nexus of my disdain towards Tresco optimism.

 

[Prince EWS]

The likelihood of Tresco, Jones and Chopra playing international cricket is highly unlikely.

Just gets on my nerves a bit when Tresco and Jones are metioned prior to England squad selection. I just havea feeling the same is going to occur with Chopra.

Trescothick and Jones are different though; they'd both be picked if they were fit and available and only outside factors we don't really know the full story about kept them out. I can see why their mention would annoy you as you can't really debates the points of a situation beyond standard cricketing merits.

With Chopra, it's a simple case of debating which player is better; we aren't waiting for Chopra for recover from a mystery illness or come back to consistent cricket after being injured for two years, we're just debating his merits as a cricketer. Totally different situations.

You've said before that you don't agree with people complaining about a player if there are no alternatives, you clearly hate discussion about the possible return and injured players and now you're trying to "outlaw" discussion about players who are perfectly fit who people believe are better alternatives. What on earth can we actually talk about? I'm sorry if all selection debates seem to get on your nerves or bore you, but I don't really care anymore TBH.

 

[gettingbetter]

I don't think they are mentioned very much anymore. Even Jones wasn't brought up much in last year's Ashes and Treschotick hasn't been mentioned since the start of the WI series from what I've seen - ever since he said he wasn't ready to come back and he might never be. I think you'll find most English fans (around here anyways, because thats all I have to go by really) don't bring them up and certainly dont blame current losses on them.

And as I said, Chopra is different. If he's carving it up in FC cricket and not getting picked for someone worse, then Indian fans would have the right to complain at his non-selection, to some extent. Especially if the guy keeping him out fails.

1. In regards to Tresco (and to a lesser extent Jones), well England really haven't been all that prominent on the international scenen lately and the ODI series win over SL kept the cynics from calling replacments into the team.

2. The English fans on here...are really the only English fans I verbal with, unless you count that barmy chap I met at Revesby Workers, but yeah, its only on here I hear it and my lack of pay TV means that I'm immune from any such callings on TV.

As a whole, please bare in mind, when I say it is highly unlikely for them to be included in the team I am taking into account who else has surpased them. In my previous post, I mentioned who i believe is ahead of Chopra. I don't think there would be many ahead of Tresco unless Shah/Bopara play extremely well, cementing themselves in the team and consequently leaving Vaughan as opener. As for ODIs, its another story. And for Jones - Sidebottom, Harmison, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett, Plunkett and Mahmood (the last two with real question marks over them, and there might be a few I've missed out) are all ahead of Jones now.

But, knowing how often both teams chagne their teams, I won;t be making any eating computer deals.