• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*** Official *** Pakistan in India

Raghav

International Vice-Captain
ONE of the reasons Pakistan lost at Delhi is because they played bad cricket whenever they got an opportunity to come back into the match. Believe me, they got plenty of them. The only way a team can win a game after scoring only 231 in the first innings is by seizing every opportunity that comes its way.

It is not that Pakistan haven't done that in the past. The Asian Test Championship game at Kolkata in 1999 is one that comes to mind.

Pak were 26-6 on the first morning, but the lower order rescued us to 185, and ended up winning. The current Pakistani team needs to draw inspiration from that Test when it reaches Kolkata for the second Test of the ongoing series.

Shoaib Akhtar bowled well in the second innings, but then, he had no support. The other bowlers could have done better. What also went against Pakistan was the fact that he has had a long break before this series.

Hence, he is finding it tough to bowl long spells.

The Kotla wicket was easy to bat on. It was obviously prepared after taking into account the thoughts of the home team.

However, I do feel that this needs to be changed. To the best of my knowledge, the home team has little or no say as far as wicketpreparation is concerned, in countries like England, Australia and New Zealand, to name just three.

It is entirely the local groundstaff's call.

That is how it should be. We need more ‘cricket' wickets, which accord equal assistance to the bowlers and batsmen. Such strips facilitate the all-round development of the cricketers themselves.

Unfortunately in the subcontinent are only interested in short-term solutions. The results might be immediate, but they will do us little good in the long run. What nobody would like to witness is the ball keeping low and posing problems to not only the batsmen, but also the wicketkeeper and slip-cordon, on the very first day.

The Indians will be delighted after the win.

I suspect that all those who were calling for the heads of some of the senior players, if not all of them, will have sheepish looks on their faces. Even they will agree that the outcome could have been different had VVS Laxman not scored 72 in the first innings and Sourav Ganguly 48 in the second.

Rahul Dravid also batted well, and Sachin Tendulkar was brilliant in the second innings. The quartet is still going strong. Nobody should think about doing away with the four batsmen just because they are in their mid-30s.

Congratulations India

But I cant stop supporting Pak even though!
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
Yeah, i know that Tresco and Jones are different stories, as are most cricketers, but it doesn't change the fact that they both have certain things common between them. At the end of the day, both have shortcomings that have disrupted their test selection opportunities.

As for Chopra, I don't really see where you are going with what you stated, if anything, it backs up what have had said previosly. Just to reiterate again, one of the main reasons I don't think Chopra will be selected is that I believe that there are 5 (or 3) opening batsmen who would be tried ahead before he actually can have a go; Jaffer Kathik, Sehwag, Gambhir and I can't remember the other.

Feel free to talk about what you want, after all this is a discussion board where people do express their opinions and I think you will find it hard for all of us to be shiny happy people and agree on everything. With teh Chopra example, I haven't black-marked him because I don't like him. You are probably more wishful than I am though in team selection, so I think that is where it all starts. I'm more of a realist than an optimist,
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
Excellent post.

I'm well aware that there are a number of options for India, such as those names you mentioned, but I'm of the opinion that you can't drop a player unless he isn't performing to a high enough standard. At the moment, none of the Indian top 7 deserve to be dropped, even though batsmen like Yuvraj Singh and S Badrinath do deserve a chance to play Test cricket.

Whilst not to the same extent, the situation is becoming slightly like what has been happening in Australia for the last 10-15 years whereby they quite a few quality batsmen who are missing out on Test cricket, despite consistently scoring big runs in domestic cricket. I wouldn't hesitate in saying that Yuvraj, Chopra, Sehwag and Badrinath would probably find themselves in most Test sides in the world at the moment, yet because of the way the Indian team is playing, find themselves sitting on the sidelines.

I do get annoyed with some people saying "Yuvraj must be in the side" or "Ganguly should be dropped", because quite frankly they are wrong. None of the current Indian batsmen deserves to lose their place on form alone. In their last ten Tests they have averaged as follows.

Karthik (since openening) - 45.25
Jaffer - 33.05
Dravid - 36.88
Tendulkar - 45.47
Ganguly - 42.23
Laxman - 47.14
Dhoni - 38.92

Wasim Jaffer isn't in the best of form, but since he was given a solid run as Test opener, beginning with this game, he has averaged 41.89. Rahul Dravid is also in a slump, but I think you need to back a batsmen of his quality that he will get through the rut and continue to score heavily, as we have seen in the past. Karthik, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman and Dhoni don't have any case for being dropped.
Does it make a difference that India isn't dominating like Australia is though?

I guess the inclusions of the players you mentioned relates to something like 'if it isn't broken...' I must ask, but I'm nots ure if you know the answer, but how long have people been talking about a revolution in Indian Test cricket? If you look at the middle-order, there is about 450 tests between them. Surely there must be a time for players to come into the team even if the current players are in good form - look at what Australia did to Bevan in the ODIs.

I won't go as far and say Yuvraj should be in the side or that Ganguly should be dropped, but I'd like to see Yuvraj in the side and I'd like to see Ganguly dropped (after his 100th though).
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
I won't go as far and say Yuvraj should be in the side or that Ganguly should be dropped, but I'd like to see Yuvraj in the side and I'd like to see Ganguly dropped (after his 100th though).
Laxman would be the guy to go in order to accomodate Yuvraj, frankly though it paid off this time I'm not sure why they selected Laxman for the first Test because he tends to do horrible against Pakistan. Anyway, Yuvraj must be cursing his luck that Laxman and Ganguly scored in the most recent Test, as those two were the most likely to be dropped for him if they failed. Funny how thats always how it seems to work though? 8-)
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
Laxman would be the guy to go in order to accomodate Yuvraj, frankly though it paid off this time I'm not sure why they selected Laxman for the first Test because he tends to do horrible against Pakistan. Anyway, Yuvraj must be cursing his luck that Laxman and Ganguly scored in the most recent Test, as those two were the most likely to be dropped for him if they failed. Funny how thats always how it seems to work though? 8-)
Yeah, it would of either been Laxman or Ganguly, unless they wanted to let Yuvraj open (which I know he did, but recall exactly against who). Just for me though, I''d prefere it would be Ganguly.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
ONE of the reasons Pakistan lost at Delhi is because they played bad cricket whenever they got an opportunity to come back into the match. Believe me, they got plenty of them. The only way a team can win a game after scoring only 231 in the first innings is by seizing every opportunity that comes its way.

It is not that Pakistan haven't done that in the past. The Asian Test Championship game at Kolkata in 1999 is one that comes to mind.

Pak were 26-6 on the first morning, but the lower order rescued us to 185, and ended up winning. The current Pakistani team needs to draw inspiration from that Test when it reaches Kolkata for the second Test of the ongoing series.

Shoaib Akhtar bowled well in the second innings, but then, he had no support. The other bowlers could have done better. What also went against Pakistan was the fact that he has had a long break before this series.

Hence, he is finding it tough to bowl long spells.

The Kotla wicket was easy to bat on. It was obviously prepared after taking into account the thoughts of the home team.

However, I do feel that this needs to be changed. To the best of my knowledge, the home team has little or no say as far as wicketpreparation is concerned, in countries like England, Australia and New Zealand, to name just three.

It is entirely the local groundstaff's call.

That is how it should be. We need more ‘cricket' wickets, which accord equal assistance to the bowlers and batsmen. Such strips facilitate the all-round development of the cricketers themselves.

Unfortunately in the subcontinent are only interested in short-term solutions. The results might be immediate, but they will do us little good in the long run. What nobody would like to witness is the ball keeping low and posing problems to not only the batsmen, but also the wicketkeeper and slip-cordon, on the very first day.

The Indians will be delighted after the win.

I suspect that all those who were calling for the heads of some of the senior players, if not all of them, will have sheepish looks on their faces. Even they will agree that the outcome could have been different had VVS Laxman not scored 72 in the first innings and Sourav Ganguly 48 in the second.

Rahul Dravid also batted well, and Sachin Tendulkar was brilliant in the second innings. The quartet is still going strong. Nobody should think about doing away with the four batsmen just because they are in their mid-30s.

Congratulations India

But I cant stop supporting Pak even though!


Kotla wicket was not EASY to bat on... Maybe it was easy to survive on.. Big difference... And balls did keep low often enough for bowlers to be interested. You are making it sound as though both teams made over 500 when they were batting...


And no, India are not the only team that get a say on wicket preparation... New Zealand and England and Australia and just about every team get a say on wicket preparation... And the Kotla wicket is like this all the time anyways... Haven't you checked up on the records of the matches played here?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
It has ben tiring to consistently hear about how Laxman has to make way for Yuvraj. Laxman has been averaging close to 50 in his last 10 test comapred to 30ish avg. of Yuvi.

Yuvi has done nothing to deserve a test spot ahead of Ganguly, Laxman etc. I dont think he should be included in Test matches even if Laxman/Ganguly are not available.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Laxman would be the guy to go in order to accomodate Yuvraj, frankly though it paid off this time I'm not sure why they selected Laxman for the first Test because he tends to do horrible against Pakistan. Anyway, Yuvraj must be cursing his luck that Laxman and Ganguly scored in the most recent Test, as those two were the most likely to be dropped for him if they failed. Funny how thats always how it seems to work though? 8-)
Its a fallacy that Laxman doesn't do well against Pak..
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
what the hell>??

damn big big blow

i think the right move would be to bring the young guns now

guys like Samiullah naizi and others who have performed well in qaida azam trophy..
 

Isolator

State 12th Man
dunno if this has been brought up recently but I remember some talk a couple of years ago of these two young pak bowlers who did very well in the U-19 world cup.... there were some videos on youtube too, in which they looked pretty impressive, swinging it around like nuts. who were they and what happened to them?
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
dunno if this has been brought up recently but I remember some talk a couple of years ago of these two young pak bowlers who did very well in the U-19 world cup.... there were some videos on youtube too, in which they looked pretty impressive, swinging it around like nuts. who were they and what happened to them?
one of them was anwar ali and i forgot the other one's name..

i don't know why they aren't considered.... they are playing domastic cricket and recently anwar got four wickets but for some reason they are not considered.. there are alot of other once like samiaullah khan Naizi, raiz afridi, najaf shah, Asad ali and so on..

i think this guy should be considered... look at his record
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/43235.html
 
Last edited:

shortpitched713

International Captain
well just read the article about umar gul.. they sent him home.. malik wants Abdul rauf, mohmmad irshad and iftekhar anjum..

Well abdul rouf is ok here his record

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/39084.html

but Mohmmad irshad.. dire

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41762.html

and the iftekhar anjum.. u all know that he isn't test level bowler.. he is worse than navid ul hassan..
I heard they're bringing in Yasir Arafat as well. I'd go with him personally, in an attack with him, Shoaib, Tanvir, and Kaneria. In any case, we're pretty well ****ed.
 
Last edited:

shortpitched713

International Captain
one of them was anwar ali and i forgot the other one's name..

i don't know why they aren't considered.... they are playing domastic cricket and recently anwar got four wickets but for some reason they are not considered.. there are alot of other once like samiaullah khan Naizi, raiz afridi, najaf shah, Asad ali and so on..

i think this guy should be considered... look at his record
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/43235.html
Was outbowled by Asad Ali in his last first class match.. :p
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
For anyone who hasn't heard of Yasir Arafat or seen him bowl he's incrediibly short for a fast bowler (around 5'8/5'9), he predomanantly tries to bowl a full length and can occasionally swing the ball in the right conditions, he's also IMO a little bit quicker than your average medium-fast bowler, he can also get the ball to "skid" because of his height and low action. Whenever I've seen him bowl pace wise (3 or 4 times) he tends to start off in the low 130s (approx 81/82mph) but can later on in a spell touch the early 140s (87-89mph). If the pitch isn't condusive to seam or the overhead conditions to swing I'd doubt if he has much effect.
 
Last edited:

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
The stats would say otherwise. He averaged 33, 9 less than his overall average, against Pakistan before the first Test.
And that's the fallacy. Laxman was made to open a lot of times and because of which his average suffered. He averages 48 as a middle order batsman.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
For anyone who hasn't heard of Yasir Arafat or seen him bowl he's incrediibly short for a fast bowler (around 5'8/5'9), he predomanantly tries to bowl a full length and can occasionally swing the ball in the right conditions, he's also IMO a little bit quicker than your average medium-fast bowler, he can also get the ball to "skid" because of his height and low action. Whenever I've seen him bowl pace wise (3 or 4 times) he tends to start off in the low 130s (approx 81/82mph) but can later on in a spell touch the early 140s (87-89mph). If the pitch isn't condusive to seam or the overhead conditions to swing I'd doubt if he has much effect.
Yeah, good assessment. TBH he reminds me a lot of Shane Watson as a bowler, with a little more movement.
 

Top