***Official*** Pakistan in England

[Langeveldt]

Yeah, exactly, and it would be unfair for the captain, Inzamam to carry the can for something that he might not even had known about.. If it did happen, WHO did it?

 

[marc71178]

If I was the captain of a team, and I felt that my team was unfairly targetted...I would not wait until the tea break to march right out and forfeit the match.

Suggests to me that maybe there's been pressure from above during the Tea break?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

PCB Chairman being interviewed right now. Says we're ready to play but the umpires are not.

That's to be expected, I'd say. Once Pakistan refused to come out after tea, the umpires were well within their rights to immediately award the game to England, and it appears they did so.

 

[Langeveldt]

Can't believe all the people here defending Pakistan's behaviour. Obviously they were accused of cheating and weren't happy about that, and fair enough (assuming they didn't actually cheat, of course), but it's completely inappropriate to refuse to come out because you disagree with the decision of an umpire. As others have said, it's effectively holding the game to ransom, and nothing good is ever going to come of it.

The umpire's decision should be respected throughout the course of the match. If there is a grievance, take it up with the relevant authorities afterwards. Forfeiting because you don't agree with a decision is poor form, and changing your mind about it afterwards and trying to come out to play anyway it just stupid.

But nothing would be done about Hair if they carried on as normal (even if they registered their greivances after the game) I think this was the straw that broke the camels back.. It needed this to get anything done about the guy

 

[silentstriker]

Can't believe all the people here defending Pakistan's behaviour. Obviously they were accused of cheating and weren't happy about that, and fair enough (assuming they didn't actually cheat, of course), but it's completely inappropriate to refuse to come out because you disagree with the decision of an umpire. As others have said, it's effectively holding the game to ransom, and nothing good is ever going to come of it.

The umpire's decision should be respected throughout the course of the match. If there is a grievance, take it up with the relevant authorities afterwards. Forfeiting because you don't agree with a decision is poor form, and changing your mind about it afterwards and trying to come out to play anyway it just stupid.

It was not a LBW decision that they disagreed with.


Every team should refuse to play every time Hair is the umpire. He is such a disgrace.

 

[Isolator]

Sharyar Khan says that the original intent was to delay coming out after tea for a few minutes in order to register a complaint. I find this strange. What is achieved by doing that? Either they don't come out at all until there's an acknowledgement/apology, or they complain to the match ref during the tea break and come out on time. I don't see how this helps.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Thinking more in terms of not coming out to play and forfeiting the game.

He's got a point there, I agree. But he's only using the letter of the law when it suits him.

Edit: Mind, when we're lawbashing: "According to the Laws the umpires are the sole judges of fair and unfair play", just like they're the sole judges of what's out or not...

 

[marc71178]

Its the umpires' decision when it concerns the rules, but its the players decision whether to continue playing after being treated like this.

If they refuse to play, then they have to accept the consequences.

 

[Fusion]

It was not a LBW decision that they disagreed with.


Every team should refuse to play every time Hair is the umpire.

Exactly. The were accused of CHEATING. That's not a minor accusation, even more so if the umpires made his decision based on ASSUMPTION, not PROOF. I agree it would have been best if they continued the game, but surely they can't be blamed for thinking they were insulted and having a right to have that reaction!

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It was not a LBW decision that they disagreed with.


Every team should refuse to play every time Hair is the umpire.

Where did I say it was an LBW decision? It doesn't matter what decision it is, respecting the umpire's decision is paramount. Incidentally, Hair is not the only umpire in the history of the game to be unpopular with particular sides. That doesn't mean you can treat their decision differently from other umpires. Also, there were two umpires out there, not just Hair. It may be convenient to blame him, but it's fairly likely that Doctrove agreed with the decision, given the body language at the time.

 

[BoyBrumby]

What would you have them do? Their position, I assume, is that they've been falsely accused of cheating, by one or both umpires. Do you expect them to come back and play, with the same umpire/s, without any sort of acknowledgement of a screw-up and without any sort of apology?

This of course is assuming the umpire/s' accusation is baseless.

I expect them to come out & play a match they're being paid a lot of money to play and then to complain in the strongest possible terms afterwards. There are proper channels for persuing greivances. Allowing this to happen is the thin end of the wedge for erosion of umpires' authority.

Where does it end?

 

[Jono]

I doubt it.

Haha?

 

[silentstriker]

If they refuse to play, then they have to accept the consequences.

Absolutely. They have the right not to play, but then the umpires have the right to punish them for it.

I have no problem with England winning by forfeiture.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Where did I say it was an LBW decision? It doesn't matter what decision it is, respecting the umpire's decision is paramount. Incidentally, Hair is not the only umpire in the history of the game to be unpopular with particular sides. That doesn't mean you can treat their decision differently from other umpires. Also, there were two umpires out there, not just Hair. It may be convenient to blame him, but it's fairly likely that Doctrove agreed with the decision, given the body language at the time.

Oh well you know what that means don't you? Doctrove must be a rabid Asian hater like Hair...

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Exactly. The were accused of CHEATING. That's not a minor accusation, even more so if the umpires made his decision based on ASSUMPTION, not PROOF. I agree it would have been best if they continued the game, but surely they can't be blamed for thinking they were insulted and having a right to have that reaction!

Pakistan were absolutely within their rights to feel insulted and aggrieved. That's not really the point IMO. It may turn out that the umpires were completely in the wrong to make the ball tampering call, but that won't excuse the decision to refuse to come out. If there was any evidence it would surely have come out at the end of the day's play anyway.

When it comes down to it, Pakistan had the moral high ground going into tea. The umpires made a controversial call, Inzy accepted it in the best possible way and carried on like a true professional and a great leader. Then after the tea break, Pakistan surrendered that moral high ground entirely.

 

[Isolator]

Allowing this to happen is the thin end of the wedge for erosion of umpires' authority.

Where does it end?

Well...I don't know, I wouldn't mind seeing someone kick Darrel Hair's *** in the middle of the game.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh well you know what that means don't you? Doctrove must be a rabid Asian hater like Hair...

No, just Hair. He's the one refusing to come out. Plus Hair might have said that he is sure, and Doctrove would have deferred to him.

What a disgrace.

 

[Scaly piscine]

No, just Hair. He's the one refusing to come out. Plus Hair might have said that he is sure, and Doctrove would have deferred to him.

What a disgrace.

So when was Doctrove been in the middle on his own then? Hmm never mind you edited...

Do you have any clue what's going on with the umpires? I don't.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

No, just Hair. He's the one refusing to come out. Plus Hair might have said that he is sure, and Doctrove would have deferred to him.

What a disgrace.

Way to jump to conclusions. Ian Botham speculated on air that it was Hair who didn't want to come out. According to Shahrayar Khan however, it was "the umpires". Given that the umpires obviously made a mutual decision to award the game to England when Pakistan didn't come out after tea in accordance with the laws, that seems unsurprising to me.

 

[BoyBrumby]

If Hair has seen something (as seems increasingly unlikely, I have to say) I hope he names the guilty party or parties.