*Official* New Zealand tour of India 2024

[kevinw]

I'd argue India needs to think about succession planning a lot more. Their two main batters and two premier spinners are on their final laps. But you'd also say several Australia players won't go beyond the next Ashes.

 

[Skyliner]

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I'm not sure there's many greater feelings than winning a game that you were expected to lose. Whether that's a comeback in a game you were massively behind in, or a match where you weren't expected to even compete before the game started.

 

[Victor Ian]

This is the feel good story of the century.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Think I'm ready to unpack thoughts in more than one-liner form.

I'm not offended to suggestions that we got a reasonable amount of luck in this series, but luck doesn't carry you to 2-0.
Here's an assortment of factors in no particular order:

- O'Rourke. We have *never* had a bowler like him. We just don't produce Morne Morkel clones.
- Santner. As others have mentioned, Herath must have been in his ear.
- Big innings from a young star in Ravindra. He plays the ball, not the man. His confidence helped the rest of the team shake the aura off Ashwin and Jadeja. I know they weren't at their best and the conditions didn't suit, but I've seen us collapse to spinners in non-spinny conditions plenty of times.
- Solid timely contributions from the bat from the support characters (Conway/Young/Blundell/Southee)
- India doesn't have the ability to bat teams out of the game currently. They have guys who can play freaky blinders like Sarfaraz, Jaiswal, and Pant, but what I find scarier when touring are the guys who can grind you into the dust and never give you a sniff.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

- Big innings from a young star in Ravindra. He plays the ball, not the man. His confidence helped the rest of the team shake the aura off Ashwin and Jadeja. I know they weren't at their best and the conditions didn't suit, but I've seen us collapse to spinners in non-spinny conditions plenty of times.

That innings pretty much set up the series win imo. Just instilled a belief in the team that they could compete with India on their home turf.

 

[Skyliner]

Still missing this weapon as well, a key piece of the puzzle.

‘In June 2021, Jamieson snared seven wickets in the World Test Championship final win over India, and a few months later surpassed Shane Bond to become the fastest New Zealander to 50 test scalps.’

 

[SteveNZ]

Think I'm ready to unpack thoughts in more than one-liner form.

I'm not offended to suggestions that we got a reasonable amount of luck in this series, but luck doesn't carry you to 2-0.
Here's an assortment of factors in no particular order:

- O'Rourke. We have *never* had a bowler like him. We just don't produce Morne Morkel clones.
- Santner. As others have mentioned, Herath must have been in his ear.
- Big innings from a young star in Ravindra. He plays the ball, not the man. His confidence helped the rest of the team shake the aura off Ashwin and Jadeja. I know they weren't at their best and the conditions didn't suit, but I've seen us collapse to spinners in non-spinny conditions plenty of times.
- Solid timely contributions from the bat from the support characters (Conway/Young/Blundell/Southee)
- India doesn't have the ability to bat teams out of the game currently. They have guys who can play freaky blinders like Sarfaraz, Jaiswal, and Pant, but what I find scarier when touring are the guys who can grind you into the dust and never give you a sniff.

This is a pretty spot on summary.

Love the point on Rachin, he just summons this confidence and 'I've got this boys' aura about him. That's not a regular aura that NZ batsmen carry, or certainly it isn't one that people who have 'earned it' (trigger word alert) carry. He's just so damned assured at the crease. He knows his game, sees it early, doesn't make overly silly mistakes and so on. Such a huge luxury to have a 24-year-old No.4 like that - presuming, and hoping he wants to be a career Test batsman and NZ great.

You're right, India doesn't have the _____ to bat teams out. I'd argue it's not ability, it's desire or motivation. Every Test batting order has the ability to hold out good bowling for a period of time if they want to. They just have to know when that time is, and actually want to do it. Not this '**** it, the ball is going sideways a bit, I'm going to swing and hope' like India did from the first 10 minutes of this series. That's set the tone for them. And to capitulate to spin at home, on a deck that did a bit but wasn't completely ragging, was poor, too.

For me, they can't truly call themselves a great, GREAT side because 12 years into a home streak that any other side would have fiercely defended with all their pride and heart, against a decent but not that good NZ outfit, they kinda just shrugged their shoulders. Eh, we got the worst of the conditions in the 1st Test. Meh, we lost a big toss in the 2nd and capitulated to a 30-Test bowler who averaged 42 previously, and couldn't get enough out of our own vaunted spinners. Oh well, the BGT is coming up. I love India as a side and a fan base but they've been shithouse in the last 2 weeks (players, I mean, not the fans) and it surprises me they haven't wanted to be better.

 

[SteveNZ]

Still missing this weapon as well, a key piece of the puzzle.

‘In June 2021, Jamieson snared seven wickets in the World Test Championship final win over India, and a few months later surpassed Shane Bond to become the fastest New Zealander to 50 test scalps.’

I think most of us are resigned to the fact we'll never have that weapon properly again. I hope I'm very wrong, because O'Rourke/Sears/Jamieson/Fisher is a tantalising prospect, even if we could do with a left-armer.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Still missing this weapon as well, a key piece of the puzzle.

‘In June 2021, Jamieson snared seven wickets in the World Test Championship final win over India, and a few months later surpassed Shane Bond to become the fastest New Zealander to 50 test scalps.’

Wouldn't bank on this guy being a regular, let alone recovering to this kind of form.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

This is a pretty spot on summary.

Love the point on Rachin, he just summons this confidence and 'I've got this boys' aura about him. That's not a regular aura that NZ batsmen carry, or certainly it isn't one that people who have 'earned it' (trigger word alert) carry. He's just so damned assured at the crease. He knows his game, sees it early, doesn't make overly silly mistakes and so on. Such a huge luxury to have a 24-year-old No.4 like that - presuming, and hoping he wants to be a career Test batsman and NZ great.

You're right, India doesn't have the _____ to bat teams out. I'd argue it's not ability, it's desire or motivation. Every Test batting order has the ability to hold out good bowling for a period of time if they want to. They just have to know when that time is, and actually want to do it. Not this '**** it, the ball is going sideways a bit, I'm going to swing and hope' like India did from the first 10 minutes of this series. That's set the tone for them. And to capitulate to spin at home, on a deck that did a bit but wasn't completely ragging, was poor, too.

For me, they can't truly call themselves a great, GREAT side because 12 years into a home streak that any other side would have fiercely defended with all their pride and heart, against a decent but not that good NZ outfit, they kinda just shrugged their shoulders. Eh, we got the worst of the conditions in the 1st Test. Meh, we lost a big toss in the 2nd and capitulated to a 30-Test bowler who averaged 42 previously, and couldn't get enough out of our own vaunted spinners. Oh well, the BGT is coming up. I love India as a side and a fan base but they've been shithouse in the last 2 weeks (players, I mean, not the fans) and it surprises me they haven't wanted to be better.

I would argue that's a huge part of Australias stranglehold over us. They don't (apart from Warner) come out and whack us to all corners. They make sure to absolutely bat us out the game every damn time.

 

[Skyliner]

Notwithstanding the comments about Jamieson’s ongoing back injuries & the growing antipathy towards Blundell’s often indifferent performances with bat and gloves, this is a potential ‘strongest possible’ line-up if every player was in form, fit, and well. Perhaps a line-up for summer 25/26. In this scenario Philips is asked to assume more responsibility in the batting order. Just a bit of speculative crystal ball gazing and not intended as a wind-up. Potential to swap Jamieson and Blundell out with Sears / Smith and whoever the form domestic wicketkeeper is next year.

1/ Tom Latham (c)
2/ Devon Conway
3/ Kane Williamson
4/ Rachin Ravindra
5/ Daryl Mitchell
6/ Glenn Phillips
7/ Tom Blundell
8/ Mitchell Santner
9/ Kyle Jamieson
10/ Matt Henry
11/ Will O’Rourke

12/ Will Young

 

[hendrix]

Notwithstanding the comments about Jamieson’s ongoing back injuries & the growing antipathy towards Blundell’s often indifferent performances with bat and gloves, this is a potential ‘strongest possible’ line-up if every player was in form, fit, and well. Perhaps a line-up for summer 25/26. In this scenario Philips is asked to assume more responsibility in the batting order. Just a bit of speculative crystal ball gazing and not intended as a wind-up. Potential to swap Jamieson and Blundell out with Sears / Smith and whoever the form domestic wicketkeeper is next year.

1/ Tom Latham (c)
2/ Devon Conway
3/ Kane Williamson
4/ Rachin Ravindra
5/ Daryl Mitchell
6/ Glenn Phillips
7/ Tom Blundell
8/ Mitchell Santner
9/ Kyle Jamieson
10/ Matt Henry
11/ Will O’Rourke

12/ Will Young

Batting looks super top heavy with mitchell at 5. Would probably take Young instead, although i do like Mitchell's (usually) decent slip fielding. Or maybe Chapman would be worth a shot.

Are there any other young (lol) batsmen coming through domestically?

 

[vandem]

... Are there any other young (lol) batsmen coming through domestically?

Mitch Hay, age 24, keeper, 1244 FC runs @ 46 in 2 full seasons. Picked for NZ T20I / ODI tour to Sri Lanka with Conway (T20I keeper) and Latham (ODI keeper) rested and normal backup white ball keeper Seifert chasing T20 league money. Hay next option for test keeper if Blundell struggles this summer. IMHO Hay good enough to be test # 4/5 in a few years with Chu as test keeper.

Perhaps Muhammad Abbas, played for NZ A last season, age 20, 974 runs @ 42.

The next few young prospects (Parkes, Mariu, Severin, Clark) need another season or two.

The NZ A team which toured Australia in mid 2023 had a batting line up (excluding Hay and Abbas) of mid career players who probably have a career peak of playing FC for NZ A and a few white ball games for NZ (Bruce, Clarkson, Foxcroft, perhaps Solia).

 

[Flem274*]

You guys are sitting on Conway a bit.

He isn't as fluent as his best, but he has consistently pushed through to provide top order runs. Rachin is great, but Conway has been low key awesome and guys who score 50-100 when out of nick are worth their weight in gold.

He took the fight to two of the best spinners around while out of nick and won.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Mitch Hay, age 24, keeper, 1244 FC runs @ 46 in 2 full seasons. Picked for NZ T20I / ODI tour to Sri Lanka with Conway (T20I keeper) and Latham (ODI keeper) rested and normal backup white ball keeper Seifert chasing T20 league money. Hay next option for test keeper if Blundell struggles this summer. IMHO Hay good enough to be test # 4/5 in a few years with Chu as test keeper.

Perhaps Muhammad Abbas, played for NZ A last season, age 20, 974 runs @ 42.

The next few young prospects (Parkes, Mariu, Severin, Clark) need another season or two.

The NZ A team which toured Australia in mid 2023 had a batting line up (excluding Hay and Abbas) of mid career players who probably have a career peak of playing FC for NZ A and a few white ball games for NZ (Bruce, Clarkson, Foxcroft, perhaps Solia).

Dale Phillips - finished last year's Plunket Shield with a couple of 100s and so far has scores of 89, 4, and 72 to start Ford Trophy.

 

[SteveNZ]

You guys are sitting on Conway a bit.

He isn't as fluent as his best, but he has consistently pushed through to provide top order runs. Rachin is great, but Conway has been low key awesome and guys who score 50-100 when out of nick are worth their weight in gold.

He took the fight to two of the best spinners around while out of nick and won.

Conway has been an integral part of this series, as I said before - despite looking like he's batting with a ice pick on rollerskates at times.

He's exactly what I mean when we have played the better fighting cricket. He's in pretty awful nick, absolutely dire before the second innings of the 2nd Test in Sri Lanka, but has willed his way into runs v a very good attack since then. It's been incredibly impressive, myself and a lot of people thought he might be cooked.

 

[_Ed_]

The 'Deliberate' Ground Staff Go-Slow That Delayed New Zealand's Maiden Test Series Victory In India By Half A Century | IND Vs NZ

New Zealand had to wait until 2024-25 for their first Test series win in India. However, they should have achieved that as early as in 1969-70.

www.wisden.com

 

[Spark]

Conway has been an integral part of this series, as I said before - despite looking like he's batting with a ice pick on rollerskates at times.

He's exactly what I mean when we have played the better fighting cricket. He's in pretty awful nick, absolutely dire before the second innings of the 2nd Test in Sri Lanka, but has willed his way into runs v a very good attack since then. It's been incredibly impressive, myself and a lot of people thought he might be cooked.

His second innings in the first game deserves quite a bit of credit IMO. He looked absolutely, truly godawful, but he stuck it out there, basically saw off the new ball bowlers, and forced Bumrah to actually get him out when whiffing outside off stump and nicking off would have been very easy in a "relieve the pressure" sort of way.

 

[Moss]

A bit of a mystery to me is how after having Herath on the coaching staff Santner has had the game of a lifetime, but Patel has looked pretty much incapable of taking a wicket. Ajaz is quite the enigma.

Hope he finds some success at the scene of his ten-for, I still believe there is a real upside to playing Ajaz if he can get it sorted out.