*Official* New Zealand tour of India 2024

[NZTailender]

Yeah that occurred to me as well, then I resolved in my mind that Ajaz is very formulaic and has probably reached his ceiling as a bowler. He's a one or two speed guy, turns it the same amount, very dependable in the right conditions but probably doesn't have any more strings to his bow. He's done incredibly well to go from being a club left arm seamer to a test spinner under Dipak Patel's guidance (who also turned Mark Craig from a batsman whose career was over with chronic fatigue to a test spinner)

I might argue that Santner is the bigger enigma - he's been capable of much more for so long but hasn't gone near it until this week. Tall guy, ****sure swagger, turns it, and I dunno - there's this intangible that always made me feel he was going to make it in Test cricket. I've always thought he would until the last year. Then I figured he didn't want it enough. But now, seemingly, he does, the coach (to his credit,) has backed him in, and obviously Santner has resolved in his mind that he wants to make a mark in Tests, not just be a franchise guy. And with all those tangibles and intangibles (I always felt the fact he's a better than scratch golfer is relevant, like Ricky Ponting) he's been in the perfect place and the perfect time for a mentor like Herath.

I sometimes wonder how much is down to the particular bowling or batting coach at the time. You think skills are learned and permanent and sports people will keep adding to their armoury but Santner looks a different bowler under Herath just like Boult and Southee did under Donald. So I wonder if Santner will return to the mean once Herath is out of the picture. He also has been on a diet of test cricket only in recent months, so wonder if captaining the white ball side will effect his bowling for the home summer. Though, like previously noted, that doesn't explain Patels poor form so far re Herath.

I'm backing him for a 5fer in the first innings of the next test tho

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

I sometimes wonder how much is down to the particular bowling or batting coach at the time. You think skills are learned and permanent and sports people will keep adding to their armoury but Santner looks a different bowler under Herath just like Boult and Southee did under Donald. So I wonder if Santner will return to the mean once Herath is out of the picture. He also has been on a diet of test cricket only in recent months, so wonder if captaining the white ball side will effect his bowling for the home summer. Though, like previously noted, that doesn't explain Patels poor form so far re Herath.

I'm backing him for a 5fer in the first innings of the next test tho

Does Herath get the credit for Ajaz Patel's performance too ?

 

[ashley bach]

Anyway, some great posting from NZ people, including my good self, over the last couple of pages. Amazing what a bit of good joy and positivity can bring out in us

TBH as a kiwi supporter if you can't find joy and positivity after what's happened this series then it's likely you'll be searching your whole life without
any reward.

 

[SteveNZ]

I sometimes wonder how much is down to the particular bowling or batting coach at the time. You think skills are learned and permanent and sports people will keep adding to their armoury but Santner looks a different bowler under Herath just like Boult and Southee did under Donald. So I wonder if Santner will return to the mean once Herath is out of the picture. He also has been on a diet of test cricket only in recent months, so wonder if captaining the white ball side will effect his bowling for the home summer. Though, like previously noted, that doesn't explain Patels poor form so far re Herath.

I'm backing him for a 5fer in the first innings of the next test tho

For sure, although all coaches are going to have players they affect more than others. Patel isn't a natural spinner - he bowled seam up until the end of his teens. He's had to fight and work hard as hell to get here, but to me he's reached his ceiling. This could be his last test. He just doesn't have a lot to add to his arsenal. But Santner, he's been world class in limited overs for a long time, has the attributes, a bit of x factor, those are the diamonds you want to uncover as a coach. And I don't think he's been ready to be uncovered until recently. Perfect storm of skill, increased desire, the right coach and perfect conditions for last week

 

[NZTailender]

Does Herath get the credit for Ajaz Patel's performance too ?

Mate I don't know. Coaching and sports is a funny thing. Some coaches will be the right fit for some players and they'll excel and for others it just muddies their game and confuses them. You see in cricket some players will turn a corner with a new batting or bowling coach and then some who were doing fine will suddenly start doing weird ****. I remember one of our coaches got me onto a shorter run up because he thought it'd make me more reliable and accurate, because reasons. Was my worst few games with the ball then went back to my natural run up and never tried it again and everything clicked again. There can be a gap between coaching, understanding, ability and execution. Maybe Patel is taking a bit longer to adjust to whatever methodology Herath is employing, or perhaps he's struggling a bit more with being the defacto number 1 spinner and having that weight on his shoulders in the attack, as opposed to Santner who might have felt a bit more freedom in that game.

 

[Silver Silva]

This really is going to be our worst India tour ever.

This is gold

 

[ashley bach]

I think this is the strongest Indian team at home ever

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Actually they were right and we beat them twice.

 

[honestbharani]

TBF we thought the same when we announced the 11 for the first test in 2011 down under against Aus as well.

 

[Skyliner]

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Does Herath get the credit for Ajaz Patel's performance too ?

Mate I don't know. Coaching and sports is a funny thing. Some coaches will be the right fit for some players and they'll excel and for others it just muddies their game and confuses them. You see in cricket some players will turn a corner with a new batting or bowling coach and then some who were doing fine will suddenly start doing weird ****. I remember one of our coaches got me onto a shorter run up because he thought it'd make me more reliable and accurate, because reasons. Was my worst few games with the ball then went back to my natural run up and never tried it again and everything clicked again. There can be a gap between coaching, understanding, ability and execution. Maybe Patel is taking a bit longer to adjust to whatever methodology Herath is employing, or perhaps he's struggling a bit more with being the defacto number 1 spinner and having that weight on his shoulders in the attack, as opposed to Santner who might have felt a bit more freedom in that game.

FC deliveries:
Ajaz - 24026
Santner - 10429

It could be many things but I suspect since Ajaz is much older and has bowled over double the FC deliveries he's simply less malleable at this point in his career.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

View attachment 42198

Murli Kartik?

 

[thierry henry]

TBH as a kiwi supporter if you can't find joy and positivity after what's happened this series then it's likely you'll be searching your whole life without
any reward.

ah rats

 

[centurymaker]

Of all the teams to lose a test series to at home to end a long streak, New Zealand would probably be the most desired team to lose one to. On the contrary, would've absolutely hated it to lose at home to Australia or England, over a long series. In fact, both Aus and Eng came close in 2023-2024. Now they can be slightly jealous of NZ.

Anyway, this Pune Test reminded me of the 2017 Pune Test where another left arm dartman- Steven O'Keefe took a 12-fer.




Why did India prepare such a pitch at such a venue where they have crumbled so badly before to another dartman, getting bowled out for 105 and 107! Defies belief that they didn't look at the history of the venue. After that Test, Steven O'Keefe didn't do a lot, taking only 7 wickets in the next 3 Tests of the series, but it turned him into a demigod for a little while.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

@centurymaker - interesting comparison. Did the two pitches play similarly? I haven’t seen anything of either test but there does look to be some parallels there. 7 years ago isn’t long enough for that to have been forgotten, surely?

 

[capt_Luffy]

O'Keefe actually has quite a great FC record though, especially given he is Australian. I believe I read somewhere the main reason he didn't played much more was his drinking problem than anything else.

 

[thierry henry]

Inferring that successful overseas lefties are mere "dartmen" while Jadeja Luke Littlers his way past 300 test wickets is crazy work

 

[centurymaker]

@centurymaker - interesting comparison. Did the two pitches play similarly? I haven’t seen anything of either test but there does look to be some parallels there. 7 years ago isn’t long enough for that to have been forgotten, surely?

Pune had only hosted 2 Tests before this. The other test was on a road vs SA in 2019.

I have seen both the 2017 test and the last test and I believe pitch played close to the one in 2017. Not as extreme though but definitely close in nature to that. Sundar was pitching it around offstump and he clean bowled 5 NZ batters in the first innings. It was unreal. Sundar is not that good a bowler tbh. And Santner was unplayable.

 

[centurymaker]

Inferring that successful overseas lefties are mere "dartmen" while Jadeja Luke Littlers his way past 300 test wickets is crazy work

Jadeja used to be a dartman initially then became a more all round bowler, though his bowling has been mediocre for a good 18 months now. He was pretty ordinary vs England this year as well. He has lost that bite. Ashwin is also struggling somewhat but we still see some great spells from him where he is turning the ball very nicely. I can't say the same about Jadeja, who could get dropped if not for his excellent batting. He has been India's 4th best batsman in the last 5 years, better than Kohli.

 

[NZTailender]

So any news on the pitch for this test? Can't see India doing anything spin friendly after last tests Mitchkrieg, or anything seam friendly after the first test.

Flat pitch, hope to win the toss and bat, and a resting of Henry and Santner (some fitness concerns) for India?