**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

[straw man]

Well this confirms NZ are going to have to pull something truly magical from very deep within the recesses of their collective **ses to get anything out of this series, when all indications are that it holds nothing more than another pile if ****.

We need a new name for the combined powers if Guptill, Flynn & Brownlie. Current ideas include:
- The axis of mediocrity
- tweedledum, tweedledumber & tweedledee
- Marshall twins eleven, twelve & thirteen ( I can't remember what numbers Athlai was up to)
- the three stooges

Prizes for more ideas
,

 

[Flem274*]

India have their wheel of mediocrity for bowlers

NZ have The Wheel of Terribleness for our top order batsmen.

 

[straw man]

So Wagner's definitely in the side, and van Wyk is slowly winning me over. I'd like those fighting 30s to be 70-80s etc next week though.

Clearly need more South Africans. Watling was previously identified as a Marshall twin but his South Africanness may be starting to assert itself. If he can walk he should play in place of one of the three stooges.

 

[SteveNZ]

Clearly need more South Africans. Watling was previously identified as a Marshall twin but his South Africanness may be starting to assert itself. If he can walk he should play in place of one of the three stooges.

Trouble is, Watling didn't stay there long enough. Left when he was 10, still some angry Proteas breeding left to be done.

Apparently he can't walk, and won't be picked for the XII or whatever it is. So given Boult is also injured, it's down to 13. Nethula will probably miss out, then it's a case of whether it's four seamers or three seamers and whether Flynn/Brownlie misses out.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say Williamson will be a viable bowling option on these pitches if they stay true to form.

Hell, Vettori might even pick up a bonus wicket.

 

[BeeGee]

Clearly need more South Africans. Watling was previously identified as a Marshall twin but his South Africanness may be starting to assert itself. If he can walk he should play in place of one of the three stooges.

He's not SA, but how long before Ronchi is eligible to play for NZ?

Clutching at straws here.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

He's not SA, but how long before Ronchi is eligible to play for NZ?

Clutching at straws here.

Wasn't it January 2013 he was available in? He's already got a Kiwi passport I think, so just needs to serve out the standdown time from his Australian caps I think. Certainly if he starts the domestic season like he played in the one game he had for Wellington last year, you've gotta think he'll be in with a chance - no matter how much my compatriots may hate that idea.

 

[BeeGee]

Trouble is, Watling didn't stay there long enough. Left when he was 10, still some angry Proteas breeding left to be done.

Apparently he can't walk, and won't be picked for the XII or whatever it is. So given Boult is also injured, it's down to 13. Nethula will probably miss out, then it's a case of whether it's four seamers or three seamers and whether Flynn/Brownlie misses out.

I bet it's going to be three seamers and play Flynn and Brownlie. The flawed logic will go something like this: our batting is weak, so let's play an extra batsman. Trouble is that our opening batsmen are so crap that our bowlers are scoring more runs than them. I'd much prefer they played the extra bowler.
If I was coach I'd drop Flynn and Guptill, and open the batting with Southee and Bracewell, just to show how disgusted I was with their performance.

Good luck Mr Hesson.

 

[Hurricane]

Wagner is pretty handy with the bat isn't he?

What will the batting order look like with him in the team with either 3 or 4 seamers?

 

[SteveNZ]

Wagner is pretty handy with the bat isn't he?

What will the batting order look like with him in the team with either 3 or 4 seamers?

He's handy enough, I don't think he'd bat ahead of Bracewell.

I dunno, I originally thought Southee was left out of the warm-up side because he was home and hosed for a spot. But now that I think about it, it was a FC game and they weren't able to squeeze him in. Martin had to play, Nethula probably had to play to push for a spot and Wagner must be ahead of Southee in the queue.

So at a guess it will be: Guptill Flynn McCullum Taylor Williamson Brownlie Vettori van Wyk Bracewell Wagner Martin

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Well, I have to say from what I've seen of Wagner's batting, he seems to be Southee-esque - i.e. he'll try to belt the ball out of the park rather than actually bat. However, given he just helped secure the draw against the WICB XI with 5* off 57 balls, maybe I've underestimated him.

 

[Ilovecric]

So we're gonna lose by an innings here right? In 3 days. To an A side.

Yeah that's not cool at all.

 

[Prince EWS]

He's handy enough, I don't think he'd bat ahead of Bracewell.

I dunno, I originally thought Southee was left out of the warm-up side because he was home and hosed for a spot. But now that I think about it, it was a FC game and they weren't able to squeeze him in. Martin had to play, Nethula probably had to play to push for a spot and Wagner must be ahead of Southee in the queue.

So at a guess it will be: Guptill Flynn McCullum Taylor Williamson Brownlie Vettori van Wyk Bracewell Wagner Martin

Yeah, I think it was a case of Martin, Wagner and Vettori absolutely having to play here because they hadn't played any other cricket at all on the tour, and Southee not being able to squeeze in after that. If Wagner bombed it in this match Nethula-style I reckon Southee might've played ahead of him but he did quite well so I think he'll keep his spot ahead of him in the pecking order.

I'm usually an advocate of four proper seamers for this side because I'm of the opinion that Vettori is a batsman who can merely bowl some long spells of non-threatening stuff to keep the others fresh, but in these conditions I think that changes a bit. Vettori, if he's worth anything at all as a bowler these days, should be a threat in these conditions against this batting lineup, and I think Kane could do the fifth bowler's duties quite well here too. I'd swap McCullum and Flynn from the eleven you posted (although that's definitely not going to happen) but otherwise I'd roll with that.

 

[Flem274*]

If Vettori can't take wickets on these pitches he has to bat in the top six from now on.

If he does take wickets though, people will take it as proof he is still a real bowler.

Can't win.

 

[SteveNZ]

Agreed, McCullum should open. However, Brendon decides where he wants to bat. I doubt he's keen to open up against a fired-up Roach and Best (although let's be honest, he basically will be).

Even if Vettori isn't able to get a truckload of purchase, he'll still possibly be effective as a holding bowler which in turn will put pressure on a side that has a penchant for scoring. They aren't as likely to sit on him and be patient as SA were last summer, or England will be come next summer. Sounds like a reasonable amount of his six-for in the warm-up match followed the same tune.

Our hands were probably tied to a point because it wasn't a 12 a side, 11 bat/11 bowl scenario but to me that's good. Pick 11 players, have it with FC status, make it mean something. But clearly with the sounds of some of our shots, that still wasn't of value.

 

[Flem274*]

This has to be Guptill's absolutely last chance btw. He's been making pretty twenties since 2009 or so.

If he ****s up, open with McCullum and someone else. Flynn can genuinely bat and is a better player than Guptill by far. Jury is still out on whether he has changed since 2008 but unlike others he can claim to be in the top five Shield batsmen outside the test bunch.

McCullum
xxx
Williamson
Taylor
xxx
Vettori
van Wyk/Watling
Bracewell
Wagner
Gillespie
Martin

That's our best side with Ryder/Brownlie/Flynn/Guptill/Watling fighting for two spots if KvW keeps wicket, and Boult is the first reserve quick.

 

[Flem274*]

Agreed, McCullum should open. However, Brendon decides where he wants to bat. I doubt he's keen to open up against a fired-up Roach and Best (although let's be honest, he basically will be).

Even if Vettori isn't able to get a truckload of purchase, he'll still possibly be effective as a holding bowler which in turn will put pressure on a side that has a penchant for scoring. They aren't as likely to sit on him and be patient as SA were last summer, or England will be come next summer. Sounds like a reasonable amount of his six-for in the warm-up match followed the same tune.

Our hands were probably tied to a point because it wasn't a 12 a side, 11 bat/11 bowl scenario but to me that's good. Pick 11 players, have it with FC status, make it mean something. But clearly with the sounds of some of our shots, that still wasn't of value.

McCullum should bat where he is told or he can go and **** himself. Same situation as Ryder in many ways: It doesn't matter how good you are, if you hold back the team in any way you are out.

We will never get good if the captain and the coach have to walk on eggshells around someone else.

However, I'd give McCullum the benefit of the doubt on the number three thing. Quite likely they announced KW was moving down the order and they were sure who to put there to provide some experience (or they would have put Flynn there surely) and McCullum put his hand up.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Assuming Guptill continues to be useless at making starts/converting starts then he's definitely gotta go.

KvW and Watling (once fit) are both in the best 7 batsmen in the country so they can both play.

I know Neil Broom was pretty horrible last season but I find it incredible that with all the different players we've tried he still hasn't played a Test. The guy is genuine class and got royally ****ed over by being played as a limited overs finisher.

 

[Hurricane]

Could we see these scenes again?

New Zealand beat Australia By 7 Runs - Highlights 2nd Test Hobart 2011 - YouTube


Edit - Southee bowling like a star in these highlights.

 

[Howsie]

Flynn can genuinely bat and is a better player than Guptill by far.

Ah what

Martin Guptill gets absolutely no love on CW. Yeah, he's incredibly frustrating as a player and has a very poor test record but you'd think he was some numpty who had never scored runs in his entire career the way people take shots at him. His first class record was ****house when he was first selected, everyone knows that, but it's improved by a good 8-9 runs since. His first class record for Derbryshire is more than good enough (44 iirc) and yet it's only his Auckland record that is ever brought up, a team for which he's only played for 20 times over six seasons.

He does need to score runs, I realise that. But to replace him you actually need to find someone who is actually going to do a better job. Seeing as we picked Rob Nicol only three tests ago we've had to turn Daniel Flynn into a makeshift opener I'd say the cupboard is pretty bare at the moment.