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**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
It's not that we don't love him, it's that he's shown pretty much zilch improvement. You can't average sub 25 as a top order bat against non minnows in tests and keep being selected, even in NZ. We won't know if his replacement can do a better job until they get as many chances as he's had.
 
BackFootPunch

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Are there any openers in FC cricket who've had more than just one decent season in a row?

Brad Wilson was decent a couple of years ago. Rutherford was incredible at the end of last season.

Who else is there?
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Howsie said:
Ah what :huh:

Martin Guptill gets absolutely no love on CW. Yeah, he's incredibly frustrating as a player and has a very poor test record but you'd think he was some numpty who had never scored runs in his entire career the way people take shots at him. His first class record was ****house when he was first selected, everyone knows that, but it's improved by a good 8-9 runs since. His first class record for Derbryshire is more than good enough (44 iirc) and yet it's only his Auckland record that is ever brought up, a team for which he's only played for 20 times over six seasons.

He does need to score runs, I realise that. But to replace him you actually need to find someone who is actually going to do a better job. Seeing as we picked Rob Nicol only three tests ago we've had to turn Daniel Flynn into a makeshift opener I'd say the cupboard is pretty bare at the moment.
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Brownlie, Flynn and Ryder are all better batsmen than him, and Watling is very versatile and who knows, might actually be better. Though he only has a few ODI scores to his name so I'll reserve judgement until/if he gets a test run. Dominated the Shield though iirc.

He has undoubtedly improved at the lower levels, but since 2009 he has been making the same mistakes over and over again at test level and while we may not be drowning in batting riches, we have batsmen who are less poor than him in the ranks.

If he fails, he goes. It's not like it will mean the end of his career. he might even return better for it.

Guptill is an attractive stroke maker who has a straight drive to die for and will always be out between 20-40 unless we are playing a minnow. Attractive =/= ability, and since we've been pretty firm on batsmen with infinitely better records, batsmen who are the same age and batsmen who are technically sound, it is pretty easy to see why he has had a good run in the team.

It is D-Day for him, and I hope he scores a big ton because we really need someone decent to partner McCullum.
 
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Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
They should've picked Rutherford for the lolz. I get the feeling Guptill will score big at some point in this series, and that will be used to justify his place in the team for the next 12 months, as he churns out a stream of **** performances. Yuck.

Howsie does have a point about the lack of options for replacing him. I think after a while though, regardless of how dire the alternatives may be, you have to draw a line under him and give somebody, anybody, an opportunity to do better. He averages 24 against proper opposition. Even McIntosh did better than that.
 
Mike5181

Mike5181

International Captain
Hopefully Flynn performs to a decent standard because all you'd need to do if Guptill continues to fail is move McCullum back up to open. If both fail then BJ Watling is an option, but if Van Wyk fails and he's needed as our keeper we'll just have to live with McCullum + one **** opener because there's no other decent openers in FC.

It's a shame Lou Vincent hasn't done anything in FC since like 2006.
 
Howsie

Howsie

Cricketer Of The Year
Flem274* said:
Brownlie, Flynn and Ryder are all better batsmen than him, and Watling is very versatile and who knows, might actually be better. Though he only has a few ODI scores to his name so I'll reserve judgement until/if he gets a test run. Dominated the Shield though iirc.
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Arghh, this annoys me so much. No doubt in 12 months time we'll be having the same exact argument over a Brownlie/Flynn/Ryder/Watling after a torrid 12 months against England and South Africa and how a random domestic batsmen who scored big runs in the Plunket Shield that season is the superior bat.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Howsie said:
Arghh, this annoys me so much. No doubt in 12 months time we'll be having the same exact argument over a Brownlie/Flynn/Ryder/Watling after a torrid 12 months against England and South Africa and how a random domestic batsmen who scored big runs in the Plunket Shield that season is the superior bat.
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Worst argument. I've always rated Ryder and Brownlie higher than Guptill.
 
BackFootPunch

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Mike5181 said:
Name the ten best batsmen in New Zealand. Best to worst/1-10.

Go.
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Going purely on my own beliefs about their ability combined with actual results.

1. Williamson
2. Taylor
3. Sinclair
4. Vettori
5. Ryder
6. McCullum
7. Watling
8. Brownlie
9. Flynn
10. Guptill
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Mike5181 said:
Name the ten best batsmen in New Zealand. Best to worst/1-10.

Go.
Click to expand...
Off the cuff.

Taylor
Vettori
Williamson
McCullum
Ryder
Sinclair*
Brownlie
Flynn
van Wyk
Guptill

*If tests only, Sinclair drops below Brownlie.

2-5 is pretty close.
 
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