***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[thierry henry]

I'm disgusted by this result. When SA needed 111 off 14 overs, on that pitch and 5 down, they should never have got close. This is the same post I have written so many times before- when we bowl last, we couldn't be worse if we tried. Even when the opposition are 8/50 chasing 250 we'll let them back into the game. And we're also cursed against South Africa in South Africa (world cups don't count as SA are cursed in those). Are we going to win a game this series or will it all be last over losses again?

 

[Blaze]

I'm disgusted by this result. When SA needed 111 off 14 overs, on that pitch and 5 down, they should never have got close. This is the same post I have written so many times before- when we bowl last, we couldn't be worse if we tried. Even when the opposition are 8/50 chasing 250 we'll let them back into the game. And we're also cursed against South Africa in South Africa (world cups don't count as SA are cursed in those). Are we going to win a game this series or will it all be last over losses again?

Gosh, you are quite upset thierry.

TBH 111 off 84 balls isn't an overly arduous task in ODI's these days so it wasn't that much of a surprise to me. I know what you are saying though we always seem to let it slip when we try defending a score.

Lol Kyle Mills last year against South Africa. 15 needed off 2 balls, all he has to do is bowl 2 legitimate balls and we win, bowls a no ball that gets hit for 6. Luckily we hung on and won that one but we do take the foot off the throat a lot.

 

[Blaze]

Well the side was clearly set up to do that (with the selection of Patel as SS)

Yeah, stupid tactics though. NZ is a bowl first side. Flem admits that himself.

 

[thierry henry]

TBH 111 off 84 balls isn't an overly arduous task in ODI's these days so it wasn't that much of a surprise to me.

Yes it is, when the team is 5 wickets down, and have only managed 139 from the first 36 overs. I watched the entire South African innings and New Zealand were in total control. Furthermore, we only needed to hold a catch and we would have won.

btw, I feel sorry for Jeetan Patel. Being a specialist death bowler is not doing much for his figures. He is going for 6 an over but actually bowling quite well imo. He is a big turner of the ball, gets a lot more turn than Vettori.

 

[_Ed_]

That was a great match, Kemp in particular took it away from us with that 22 run over.

Have to feel for Jeetan Patel, that embarrassing dropped catch that went for four was a bit costly as a few more boundaries followed. But his two wickets hopefully made him feel a bit better.

Hoping for a 3-2 result either way this series if we have more matches like that...5-0 would be just plain unfair!

 

[Blaze]

Yes it is, when the team is 5 wickets down, and have only managed 139 from the first 36 overs. I watched the entire South African innings and New Zealand were in total control. Furthermore, we only needed to hold a catch and we would have won.

btw, I feel sorry for Jeetan Patel. Being a specialist death bowler is not doing much for his figures. He is going for 6 an over but actually bowling quite well imo. He is a big turner of the ball, gets a lot more turn than Vettori.

IMO it isn't. Sure the bowling side will be favourites in that situation but sides are expected to be able to get 80+ runs in those last 10 overs and in this particular match, the match never got out of South Africas reach. 8 an over with 14 overs to go and 5 wickets in hand is well within striking distance for good ODI sides. NZ were never in total control, the nature of one day cricket means that teams can win games from pretty much anywhere. All it takes is one good partnership to turn most games. Although you are right in saying that if Patel had have held that catch we would have been all but home.

Oh and I feel sorry for Patel too.

 

[thierry henry]

Teams can score quick at the end of an innings with wickets in hand. imo, 5 down with 14 overs left is not "wickets in hand". South Africa were on a knife edge whereas NZ had to bowl and field poorly to lose at that point. For Astle to bowl a 22 run over was inexcusable. We should not have lost that game.

 

[Lyell_Chris]

Vincent, Marshall, Mills and Adams have to go, replace them with Styris, Fulton, Franklin and a young quick

Astle isn't even meant to be bowling because of his knee's.

Oram should be dropped for Styris if he can't bowl.

Hopefully Harris, Cairns n Sinclair can get back into the team

 

[thierry henry]

wholesale changes I don't think so buddy. Adams and Mills went well.

 

[bradman2005]

Vincent, Marshall, Mills and Adams have to go, replace them with Styris, Fulton, Franklin and a young quick

Astle isn't even meant to be bowling because of his knee's.

Oram should be dropped for Styris if he can't bowl.

Hopefully Harris, Cairns n Sinclair can get back into the team

wtf,thats a bit of a over reaction
And astle wouldnt be bowling if it was bad for him and there is no young quick

Oram is a batsman first,bowling is a bonus with him and he is good enough with the bat to be there as a batter alone

 

[jlo33692]

I'm disgusted by this result. When SA needed 111 off 14 overs, on that pitch and 5 down, they should never have got close. This is the same post I have written so many times before- when we bowl last, we couldn't be worse if we tried. Even when the opposition are 8/50 chasing 250 we'll let them back into the game. And we're also cursed against South Africa in South Africa (world cups don't count as SA are cursed in those). Are we going to win a game this series or will it all be last over losses again?

Thierry
They have to start practicing winning the toss better?
In all seriousnes though what happened ,when i say the scores early on SA were scooting along in the run rate,but had lost 3 wickets,I have only saw the final score and see they got up,but did they actually threaten to win ,NZ,? How did S Bonde bowl? I think he is the difference between NZ being an so so side or competing against the best?

 

[Lyell_Chris]

an over reaction ??

Marshall is out of form and vincent , adams and mills shouldn't be in the team

as for the young quick we have 4 atm, but Bracewell hates Butler

 

[bradman2005]

an over reaction ??

Marshall is out of form and vincent , adams and mills shouldn't be in the team

as for the young quick we have 4 atm, but Bracewell hates Butler

so we shud just drop adams and mills despite the fact they have good odi records and played well against SA,and replace them with a raw quick from first class,butler is injured isnt he?( can u name the 4 bowlers)

 

[NZTailender]

an over reaction ??

Marshall is out of form and vincent , adams and mills shouldn't be in the team

as for the young quick we have 4 atm, but Bracewell hates Butler

I think Fulton should get a spot but it's tough because I'm a Vincent fan...who should not open to OD batting or be in at 3...maybe 5 or 6 would suit him.

My ODI side :P Going on: Cairns & Marshall returning to form.

1. S Fleming
2. N Astle
3. H Marshall
4. S Styris
5. J Oram/L Vincent
6. L Vincent/J Oram
7. B McCullum
8. C Cairns
9. D Vettori
10. J Franklin/A Adams/K Mills
11. S Bond

Supersub: A Adams/K Mills/J Patel

Edit: That 10 spot should be a combination of who's in form (or in favour)

 

[_Ed_]

an over reaction ??

Marshall is out of form and vincent , adams and mills shouldn't be in the team

as for the young quick we have 4 atm, but Bracewell hates Butler

Mills was our best pace bowler yesterday, 2-21 in his first 8 and if the catch had been held his figures would have been even better. Shouldn't bowl at the death though.

Adams is getting more and more consistent, I think he deserves his place.

Agree about Vincent though, in ODIs at least.

 

[Lyell_Chris]

the quicks r Butler, Sherlock, Davis n Burtt or what ever his name is,

Adams i suppose can stay but I really don't like mills

we need a death bowler

 

[Pratters]

Yes it is, when the team is 5 wickets down, and have only managed 139 from the first 36 overs. I watched the entire South African innings and New Zealand were in total control. Furthermore, we only needed to hold a catch and we would have won.

I would really like some stat generator to let us get figures such as these if we want. Like how many teams have gone on to chase a total of range X to Y in so many overs given so many wickets in hand over all, in a specific country etc.

 

[marc71178]

Teams can score quick at the end of an innings with wickets in hand. imo, 5 down with 14 overs left is not "wickets in hand". South Africa were on a knife edge whereas NZ had to bowl and field poorly to lose at that point. For Astle to bowl a 22 run over was inexcusable. We should not have lost that game.

Was it poor bowling or just inspired hitting?

 

[jlo33692]

Vincent, Marshall, Mills and Adams have to go, replace them with Styris, Fulton, Franklin and a young quick

Astle isn't even meant to be bowling because of his knee's.

Oram should be dropped for Styris if he can't bowl.

Hopefully Harris, Cairns n Sinclair can get back into the team

Lyell
It always gets a bit frustrating when you lose but big changes are not the answer m8.If it was every losing team would dump half the team.
In all honesty ,and im an aussie supporter,but it could be a blessing in disguise for NZ to have to play with out the 3 you named above becuase if you are relying on them m8 they are not your future,so i would reckon to stick with the yourng ones as they will get better,remember they only lost in last over to a fairly competent ODI side on there home turf,
Things always look worse when you lose but NZ have the nuclease of a very good ODI side,the keys are all there in flemming,(cap,and bat)Bond,Vettorri,this is what they will build the side around as each one is a geniuine top liner in there craft and in top bunch in world cricket,the rest will come along just need the time.Dont slit the throat yet m8 hahahaha

 

[_Ed_]

Was it poor bowling or just inspired hitting?

Mostly the latter, Kemp was incredible.