*Official** New Zealand in England

[Rich2001]

Small point to add to Mike's eye-witness report - Strauss' inside edge clattered into off stump and dramtically changed direction (10 to 15 degrees!)

Asked about it afterwards, he just smiled and said "Sometimes you get the luck"

LOL yeah him and Vettori must have got the glue guns out, quite how both of those got away with them was incrible! the bails didn't even more a fraction, Harmy showed Vettori how it was done the very next ball though!

 

[Neil Pickup]

Actually we bowled 42 overs in about 3 and a half hours...






McCullum - Trescothick gloved a short one and he couldn't hold on.

I remember the McCullum one now - fairly early on (~80-0?), short ball, outside legstump, high bounce, tickled through to the keeper, McCullum jumped high and fingertipped it for four...

Rich's post confirms that our spin stocks are considerably less rosy than the middle order!

 

[Rich2001]

Rich's post confirms that our spin stocks are considerably less rosy than the middle order!

I don't know there are some really good players comming through, they just need a season to develop a bit more James Treadwell of Kent has certianly been ear-marked by the selectors, continually selected for the acadmey and asked to join the England squad a fair few times.

Keedy appears to be a candidate from all the interviews and reports I've heard his name is always around.

And serval others around the counties, but at the end of the day if they aren't tried then how will you know if they would be any good as county records aren't everything? I guess also the same argument comes around and around but why play a spinner if you don't have one.... Like I said in a above post Vaughan and if Kevin P come in then you have some spin option it wouldn't be totally void from the side and then pick a decent AR seamer who will take wickets.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I don't know there are some really good players comming through, they just need a season to develop a bit more James Treadwell of Kent has certianly been ear-marked by the selectors, continually selected for the acadmey and asked to join the England squad a fair few times.

Keedy appears to be a candidate from all the interviews and reports I've heard his name is always around.

And serval others around the counties, but at the end of the day if they aren't tried then how will you know if they would be any good as county records aren't everything? I guess also the same argument comes around and around but why play a spinner if you don't have one.... Like I said in a above post Vaughan and if Kevin P come in then you have some spin option it wouldn't be totally void from the side and then pick a decent AR seamer who will take wickets.

James Tredwell. No "a"!

If you have a batsman as a valid bowling option, then forget a seamer in for Giles. Pick another bat and have something like this (2005?)

Strauss
Vaughan
Butcher
Trescothick
Thorpe/Bell/Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Jones/Read
Harmison
Jones/Mahmood
Hoggard/Anderson

Mmmm...

 

[a massive zebra]

I don't know there are some really good players comming through, they just need a season to develop a bit more James Treadwell of Kent has certianly been ear-marked by the selectors, continually selected for the acadmey and asked to join the England squad a fair few times.

James Treadwell is not even the best spinner in Kent.

 

[a massive zebra]

James Tredwell. No "a"!

If you have a batsman as a valid bowling option, then forget a seamer in for Giles. Pick another bat and have something like this (2005?)

Strauss
Vaughan
Butcher
Trescothick
Thorpe/Bell/Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Jones/Read
Harmison
Jones/Mahmood
Hoggard/Anderson

Mmmm...

I would like to see Trescothick (how can you bat him at 4?) dropped for Ben Smith and Saggers in for Jones/Mahmood. Pieterson should be higher than 6 and Thorpe was best at number 4 - god only knows why he dropped down to 5 although when Fletcher is coach anything within the confines of insanity is possible.

 

[Langeveldt]

Mahmood??? What you been smoking Neil?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Mahmood??? What you been smoking Neil?

Nothing at all.. Sajjid Mahmoood? Bowling star of the A tour?

 

[Rich2001]

James Tredwell. No "a"!

If you have a batsman as a valid bowling option, then forget a seamer in for Giles. Pick another bat and have something like this (2005?)

Strauss
Vaughan
Butcher
Trescothick
Thorpe/Bell/Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Jones/Read
Harmison
Jones/Mahmood
Hoggard/Anderson

Mmmm...

Opps @ typo - Better keep annoying you all with him so I remember to spell it right

As for your team, I like - Trescothick in the middle order has he ever bat there? Vaughan just seems more of a batsman and would fit as a player who can bat a long time... Strauss also seems at home in the middle, done the job for Mid'*** a fair few times... However that's a minor point and overall the team looks good.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I would like to see Trescothick (how can you bat him at 4?) dropped for Ben Smith and Saggers in for Jones/Mahmood. Pieterson should be higher than 6 and Thorpe was best at number 4 - god only knows why he dropped down to 5 although when Fletcher is coach anything within the confines of insanity is possible.

Too many middle order players, not enough places - why can't Trescothick bat in the middle order?

We've established that Saggers is about #10 on the list, and isn't gonna get picked. Neither's Ben Smith.

 

[a massive zebra]

Nothing at all.. Sajjid Mahmoood? Bowling star of the A tour?

He was dropped from the Lancashire side a few games ago. Struggles to make the full strength Lancashire side. Picking him for England is ludicrous.

 

[a massive zebra]

We've established that Saggers is about #10 on the list, and isn't gonna get picked. Neither's Ben Smith.

I know their not going to get picked. Whether they should be selected is another matter entirely.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Opps @ typo - Better keep annoying you all with him so I remember to spell it right

As for your team, I like - Trescothick in the middle order has he ever bat there? Vaughan just seems more of a batsman and would fit as a player who can bat a long time... Strauss also seems at home in the middle, done the job for Mid'*** a fair few times... However that's a minor point and overall the team looks good.

There wasn't too much thought into the middle order positions.. I'm just thinking about Tresco's recent new-ball vulnerability. Though he'll probably just end up facing the second... or third...

 

[Neil Pickup]

I know their not going to get picked. Whether they should be selected is another matter entirely.

I can see the argument for Saggers but I'm willing to back Fletcher's judgment over yours as I've never seen him bowl.

Ben Smith, however? Why?!

 

[Rich2001]

James Treadwell is not even the best spinner in Kent.

Who is? Iam happy with any of the below in my side but you can judge who is best.

Min Patel - Been a fantastic player for us and was def' the best, BUT he has just come back from a injury that kept him out of the side for 2 years, and when he was playing Jazza/Fults picked Tredwell ahead of Patel for the OD side and he started to play ahead in the CC to at the end of the season.

Tredwell - Hit and miss, he is a fantastic spinner when in form and the guy has no fear! Chris H would be drooling at the guy he tosses the ball up so high and regularly, he doesn't care if he is hit he does it again and tells the batsman think your good do it again.... He also has a "new" ball that Murali helped teach him (no he doesn't throw!) and that appears to have been a sucess so far. Also he is a fine batsman.

Ferley - Hard to tell in all honestly, seems to generally take more wickets than Treds but does also appear to go for more runs, but he also has more bad days that Treds, if Treds isn't taking wickets he is keeping it tight, whereas Ferley goes for runs.

J.Denly - This guy is a freak and I would certianly watch out for him! - He is a batsman who has scored hatfulls of runs in non professional stuff and for the 2nds, but he thinks he is a ok bowler (Leggies) but the guy is fantastic and I would pick him in my side as a bowler alone he is that good. The reason you haven't heard much of him is he is still only 19ish and is just got his full contract, his brother isn't bad either

Anyway this isn't a Kent thread (not a bad idea ) so before Neil tells me off, lets talk about England

 

[a massive zebra]

I can see the argument for Saggers but I'm willing to back Fletcher's judgment over yours as I've never seen him bowl.

Ben Smith, however? Why?!

He's been the most consistent county batsman in England this century.

County Championship record:

2000 17 22 4 1165 204 64.72 4 3
2001 16 28 2 1197 180* 46.03 5 2
2002 16 28 3 1060 129 42.40 3 6
2003 16 26 2 1155 110 48.12 2 10
2004 4 6 2 314 187 78.50 1 1

 

[anzac]

And a bit of a random point, but what do New Zealand have in the spin cupboard apart from Wiseman and Vettori??

Its good to see such evenly matched teams fighting it out, but I cant help but feel NZ have much more to offer in the way of spin in the coming years...

from memory this has been touched on in the old 'A' teams thread..........my understanding from afar is that spin in NZL is still dominated by finger spinners, and on none too friendly tracks..........

this probably means that although we talk about guys like Bruce Martin & a few others as alternatives to the current encumbants, the reality may be that on todays flat tracks most finger spinners are bound to struggle in general outside the sub continent.........

I make no secret of my preference on such pitches for wrist spin & IMO the Aussies have stolen a march (again) as per their aggressive batting to 'advance the game'..........

unfortunately from what I can see there are few wrist spinners to be seen in NZL, let alone any making a splash v finger spin - IMO it's part of the old theory of wrist v finger that while the former has greater scope & application, the latter is the more accurate & therefore less expensive..........

don't really know that that helps at all - sorry......

 

[a massive zebra]

Who is?

Min Patel is the best without doubt. He has been injured but his return was reasonably successful and he has done very well for you in the past.

Admittedly I have not seen Treadwell bowl but this season he has 1 first class wicket for over 200 runs and his career average is around 45.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He's been the most consistent county batsman in England this century.

County Championship record:

2000 17 22 4 1165 204 64.72 4 3
2001 16 28 2 1197 180* 46.03 5 2
2002 16 28 3 1060 129 42.40 3 6
2003 16 26 2 1155 110 48.12 2 10
2004 4 6 2 314 187 78.50 1 1

He's also 32. I get the feeling that in fourteen years of first-class cricket, that if there were anything special, he'd have been spotted.

And how about this for consistency:
2003 14 22 4 1239 279* 68.83 5 2
2002 14 24 4 1073 218 53.65 3 6
2001 9 14 0 776 146 55.42 3 4
2000 13 21 4 1088 120* 64.00 4 6

Guess the player?

 

[Langeveldt]

He's also 32. I get the feeling that in fourteen years of first-class cricket, that if there were anything special, he'd have been spotted.

And how about this for consistency:
2003 14 22 4 1239 279* 68.83 5 2
2002 14 24 4 1073 218 53.65 3 6
2001 9 14 0 776 146 55.42 3 4
2000 13 21 4 1088 120* 64.00 4 6

Guess the player?

Graeme Hick?