i think Gary Keedy of Lancashire is the best of the alternatives or another batsman or seamer, or anyone rather than Giles, the guys had so many chances it's untrue. In the West Indies he was hopeless and here again the Nz batsmen must have just seen free runs which is exactly what they got. Its embarrasing. He's not good enough for test cricket unless we're playing on a dust bowl in the subcontinent, full stop! Even if he is the best spinner of the lot(?) is there much point in playing someone simply not good enough to be at the highest level?Andre said:
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
*Official** New Zealand in England
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
I used a kookaburra ball for the first time recently and it was like a tennis ball after a few overs had gone. The ball got really soft have to admit I was quite surprised, you lot must be going soft down under!Tim said:
Anyway as for the New Zealand bowlers I was most surprised with them today. I know the best one was missing but even so i must admit to expecting good things from them and they let themselves down. Martin and Tuffey especially who just seemed content to drop it there or thereabouts and didnt seem bothered, a very clear absence of any aggression or fight. Cairns also looks a shadow of his former self with the ball(although with after that batting i'm not sure anyone cared, the guy was awesome), and England's openers batted very well without being really troubled. Credit however to Oram who I thought particularly in his second spell bowled by far the best of any Nz bowlers, I thought he was taken off too soon after he'd got Trescothick out mind you.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
I didn't catch much of yesterday, but I understand that there was only really 1 incident - the Astle one.Tim said:
2 misses today that I saw - they may have been hard ones to be fair, but still chances.Tim said:
As it stands neither were too costly as the men were out shortly after, but I think the lack of chances pays tribute to the English openers, especially given Cairns' comments after the day ended.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Actually Andre, I agree with Chris (never thought I'd say that about anything), although I sense he's more interested in replacing him like for like whereas I want an extra batsman (just think how strong the line-up would look with Flintoff at 7 and Jones at 8!)Andre said:
If we had a Lehmann/Katich-type batsman it's be ideal.
Langeveldt
Soutie
Good to see Strauss in the runs, he does look very handy indeed.... Interesting to see another Brit using the "new school" Albion helmets 
Also interesting to see the Hogg promoted to do nightwatchman duty.!
Also interesting to see the Hogg promoted to do nightwatchman duty.!ok - not seen any coverage yet so I've just got the reports / cricinfo / comments to go from.............
must say that yet again I am left frustrated by the NZL batting........... :****ed:
while a score of 386 looks good, IMO it flatters to decieve when you consider that there are only 5 contributions in double figures - 4 of them half tons & none going on to make a ton after getting a start!! Even less flattering when you consider the SR at which Astle, Oram & Cairns (esp) scored their runs at - 83, 81 & 174 respectively!!! Certainly entertaining, definately 'advancing the game', but also perhaps a little too much ODI mode & destined for a short but colourful duration. In contrast Richardson's top score SR was at a touch under 35!!!
The innings exemplified the best & worst of a batting lineup heavy with 'hitters' rather than 'stroke makers' - the boxing analogy of punchers v boxers comes to mind.......and I am more convinced of my concerns regarding the need of a Martyn / Dravid type to provide some consistency to the innings.
While Richardson provides a Rock of Gibraltar type presence, I am also convinced that he is not easy to bat with for the 'punchers' in the NZL batting lineup, as it becomes all too easy for him to dominate the strike & the innings momentum to grind to a halt - resulting in his partners getting frustrated & often holing out. Similarly the 'punchers' also need to have the strike taken away from them at times to allow the red mist to dissipate & thus allow the partnership to flourish & the innings to reap the benefit of their work - but this does not mean starving them of it.
Already in contrast the ENG batsmen have indicated a consistency & continuity that the NZL batting lacks IMO.......and a belated congrads to Strauss re his ton on debut & at Lords (so what if it's his Home ground for his County).
Both bowling attacks have so far struggled somewhat, although ENG must be pleased to see that the pair that took the belting on Day 1 respond so emphaticaly on Day 2. NZL will be hoping for a similar response from their attack on Day 3, as they have already passed the total for extras from the NZL innings, particularly by having given up 3x as many nb as ENG in 3/4 the same number of overs!!!!
If NZL managed to 'save' Day 1 via Oram's innings in the last session, then stumps on Day 2 sees ENG with the acendancy. The NZL bowling attack must respond quickly on Day 3 or the ENG batsmen by Lunch will be in a position to be able to set the tone for the remainder of this match - possibly the series....
must say that yet again I am left frustrated by the NZL batting........... :****ed:
while a score of 386 looks good, IMO it flatters to decieve when you consider that there are only 5 contributions in double figures - 4 of them half tons & none going on to make a ton after getting a start!! Even less flattering when you consider the SR at which Astle, Oram & Cairns (esp) scored their runs at - 83, 81 & 174 respectively!!! Certainly entertaining, definately 'advancing the game', but also perhaps a little too much ODI mode & destined for a short but colourful duration. In contrast Richardson's top score SR was at a touch under 35!!!
The innings exemplified the best & worst of a batting lineup heavy with 'hitters' rather than 'stroke makers' - the boxing analogy of punchers v boxers comes to mind.......and I am more convinced of my concerns regarding the need of a Martyn / Dravid type to provide some consistency to the innings.
While Richardson provides a Rock of Gibraltar type presence, I am also convinced that he is not easy to bat with for the 'punchers' in the NZL batting lineup, as it becomes all too easy for him to dominate the strike & the innings momentum to grind to a halt - resulting in his partners getting frustrated & often holing out. Similarly the 'punchers' also need to have the strike taken away from them at times to allow the red mist to dissipate & thus allow the partnership to flourish & the innings to reap the benefit of their work - but this does not mean starving them of it.
Already in contrast the ENG batsmen have indicated a consistency & continuity that the NZL batting lacks IMO.......and a belated congrads to Strauss re his ton on debut & at Lords (so what if it's his Home ground for his County).
Both bowling attacks have so far struggled somewhat, although ENG must be pleased to see that the pair that took the belting on Day 1 respond so emphaticaly on Day 2. NZL will be hoping for a similar response from their attack on Day 3, as they have already passed the total for extras from the NZL innings, particularly by having given up 3x as many nb as ENG in 3/4 the same number of overs!!!!
If NZL managed to 'save' Day 1 via Oram's innings in the last session, then stumps on Day 2 sees ENG with the acendancy. The NZL bowling attack must respond quickly on Day 3 or the ENG batsmen by Lunch will be in a position to be able to set the tone for the remainder of this match - possibly the series....
badgerhair
U19 Vice-Captain
(my day at the Test)
Today's cricket was a lot less interesting and a lot more exhilarating
than yesterday's. The good thing about that was that there was plenty
of reason to clap the hands, which was approximately the only way of
keeping warm on a bitter day. Blithering idiots like Martin-Jenkins
could twitter on the radio about how it was a pleasantly warm
afternoon as they sat there in an enclosed, heated commentary box, and
drivel on about how the Pavilion wasn't full because there were few
people sitting outside, but those of us wearing overcoats in a howling
gale on the top of the Warner Stand were under no such impression
about the temperature, and a visit to the Pavilion in search of warmth
confirmed that it was packed with Members huddling against the cold.
The first 70 minutes were amongst the most exhilarating I've spent at
a cricket ground. 14.2 overs, 102 runs and five wickets are amazing
enough statistics for Test cricket, but the manner of the events was
remarkable.
Flintoff finished off the light-interrupted over from last night, off
which Oram played a solid shot which got him to the other end. Just in
time to face a Harmison unrecognisable from the previous day. He tore
in, and had Oram caught behind in his first over. Who would be next?
Chris Cairns emerged. He was obviously keen to get on with it, and I thought we could well be in for some fun in the next few overs.
And, oh, what fun it was! Bish! Over extra cover! Bash! Over
mid-wicket! Bosh! Over backward point! 10 fours and four sixes (taking
him past IVAR's record career total) were the core of 82 glorious runs
off 47 balls - and he had to slow down a bit to farm the strike when
he'd run out of partners. No bowler could tame him while he wielded
his 3-and-bit pound cudgel as if it were a tennis racket. It wasn't
mere hitting, either; there were almost delicate sliced lobs to far
parts of the court (though he wasn't desperately concerned that they
fell "in") among the smashes.
It ended in the grand manner. Flintoff was summoned as next victim,
and Cairns looked his first ball over. The next one disappeared into
the crowd, as did the next, and the fourth ball of the over left the
bat as if to repeat the dose, but he'd hit it into the wind, it held
up, and Harmison was able to pouch the sort of catch which often gets
dropped in these cirumstances with relative aplomb.
Meanwhile, Harmison had got back into the destructive mode of his
Caribean series. His fastest ball of the morning was measured at 91.6
mph, well up on yesterday's 88-89 mph efforts, and the non-Cairns
batsmen were clearly rattled. Most spectacularly Vettori, who
bottom-edged one which started to roll towards the stumps. Finally
locating it, he frantically attemtped to divert it, succceding only in
helping it to clunk into the base of the stumps, but the bails merely
bounced in the groove. The next ball was faster, and Vettori now
demonstrated how he should have done it the previous time by
bottom-edging it directly into his stumps very hard indeed.
Cairns's efforts thus propelled New Zealand to 386, which is a good
enough number, but it remained to be seen how good it was on this
pitch.
Trescothick and Strauss came out to face 10 overs before lunch. They
played carefully, clearly with the main intention of staying until
lunch and then assessing what to do. Martin got Strauss to edge one
rather nervously towards secomnd slip, but he had got enough bat on it
for it not to carry. Otherwise, though, 80 mph bowlers on a slow pitch
seemed not to be all that much of a threat.
A view clearly shared in the England dressing room over lunch, as the
afternoon session consisted of Trescothick and Strauss skipping along
at 4 an over as the seamers rotated, with an interlude from Vettori to
try and change the pace to no avail. By the time the drinks came out,
it had become apparent that we were simply going to have to wait for a
wicket until a batsman got tired enough to make a mistake because this
paceless attack was without venom on a placid pitch.
Trescothick nearly always looks pretty good against 82 mph bowling on
a slow pitch, and today was not one of the exceptions. He runs it down
to third man, spanks it through extra cover, and works it off his legs
and sweeps the spinner. As today's added bonus, he had the job both as
senior player and captain to help Strauss keep his concentration up in
his first Test innings.
Which was immensely important. For the most part, Strauss looked
composed and entirely at home. In many ways, he should have been,
since the bowling attack was very similar to the type of bowling he
faces week in, week out in county cricket, and it was his home ground.
But he had never before played in front of a packed house - and the
ground was about 90% full - and it was a Test match. Every hour or so,
through which he had played with complete assurance, he would play a
couple of very loose shots, though luckily he didn't usually connect,
and Trescothick would have to walk down to him and have a few words to
settle him down again.
Trescothick fell when Oram and Cairns had started a useful bowling
partnership. Cairns was nippy, up around the 85 mph mark, and bowling
aggressively while Oram plugged away on a Shaun Pollock sort of line,
reeling off maidens. Trescothick finally chased one he probably
shouldn't have and edged it to McCullum.
Strauss was on 89 at the time, and it took him an age to reach his
hundred. He was clearly feeling the pressure, and Fleming set fields
which challenged and frustrated him while Cairns and Oram starved him
of opportunities to score - not by bowling well wide, but with
excellent length and good line. He started lashing out, and was
fortunate that an intended off drive squeezed past the stumps for a
four to fine leg, which took him to 95. On 98, there were two
excellent cuts which were superbly fielded, and then, at last, he got
one through the field to become the first England player since John
Hampshire to make a century on Test debut at Lord's, an achievement
last recorded by Saurav Ganguly, and also the first since Hampshire to
score a debut ton in the first innings.
Strauss is an orthodox batsman. He drives well in the V, he cuts, he
pulls, he can sweep. He shapes tidily, and plays most of his shots
crisply and cleanly. One of the NZers on the radio comms was reminded
of Langer, but I don't really see that: I think Strauss is somewhat
more upright. He is good to watch, worth seeing but not worth making a
big effort to go and see.
He'd just clocked up his fifth hour at the crease and had reached 112
when Vettori came back on. He played rather ineffectually at one and
was gratefully caught by Richardson at forward short leg, which
brought Hoggard out as nightwatchman accompanying Butcher who ended on
22.
England are now 140 behind with 8 wickets left and three days to go.
They will obviously hope to bat all day tomorrow and on into Sunday
morning and get themselves a lead of 250 or so. There is little
obvious reason why this should be beyond them, given what we have seen
in this match so far.
There will be much more speculation for the moment about what the
England management are going to do with their nice new problem, that
of deciding which of their seven Test centurions to leave out when
Vaughan returns, probably for the next match. Since it's at
Headingley, the easy way out is to drop Giles and pack the batting,
but they may not be able to avoid making a decision at Trent Bridge.
Which will no doubt wonderfully concentrate the mind of Mr Hussain in
particular.
Cheers,
Mike
Today's cricket was a lot less interesting and a lot more exhilarating
than yesterday's. The good thing about that was that there was plenty
of reason to clap the hands, which was approximately the only way of
keeping warm on a bitter day. Blithering idiots like Martin-Jenkins
could twitter on the radio about how it was a pleasantly warm
afternoon as they sat there in an enclosed, heated commentary box, and
drivel on about how the Pavilion wasn't full because there were few
people sitting outside, but those of us wearing overcoats in a howling
gale on the top of the Warner Stand were under no such impression
about the temperature, and a visit to the Pavilion in search of warmth
confirmed that it was packed with Members huddling against the cold.
The first 70 minutes were amongst the most exhilarating I've spent at
a cricket ground. 14.2 overs, 102 runs and five wickets are amazing
enough statistics for Test cricket, but the manner of the events was
remarkable.
Flintoff finished off the light-interrupted over from last night, off
which Oram played a solid shot which got him to the other end. Just in
time to face a Harmison unrecognisable from the previous day. He tore
in, and had Oram caught behind in his first over. Who would be next?
Chris Cairns emerged. He was obviously keen to get on with it, and I thought we could well be in for some fun in the next few overs.
And, oh, what fun it was! Bish! Over extra cover! Bash! Over
mid-wicket! Bosh! Over backward point! 10 fours and four sixes (taking
him past IVAR's record career total) were the core of 82 glorious runs
off 47 balls - and he had to slow down a bit to farm the strike when
he'd run out of partners. No bowler could tame him while he wielded
his 3-and-bit pound cudgel as if it were a tennis racket. It wasn't
mere hitting, either; there were almost delicate sliced lobs to far
parts of the court (though he wasn't desperately concerned that they
fell "in") among the smashes.
It ended in the grand manner. Flintoff was summoned as next victim,
and Cairns looked his first ball over. The next one disappeared into
the crowd, as did the next, and the fourth ball of the over left the
bat as if to repeat the dose, but he'd hit it into the wind, it held
up, and Harmison was able to pouch the sort of catch which often gets
dropped in these cirumstances with relative aplomb.
Meanwhile, Harmison had got back into the destructive mode of his
Caribean series. His fastest ball of the morning was measured at 91.6
mph, well up on yesterday's 88-89 mph efforts, and the non-Cairns
batsmen were clearly rattled. Most spectacularly Vettori, who
bottom-edged one which started to roll towards the stumps. Finally
locating it, he frantically attemtped to divert it, succceding only in
helping it to clunk into the base of the stumps, but the bails merely
bounced in the groove. The next ball was faster, and Vettori now
demonstrated how he should have done it the previous time by
bottom-edging it directly into his stumps very hard indeed.
Cairns's efforts thus propelled New Zealand to 386, which is a good
enough number, but it remained to be seen how good it was on this
pitch.
Trescothick and Strauss came out to face 10 overs before lunch. They
played carefully, clearly with the main intention of staying until
lunch and then assessing what to do. Martin got Strauss to edge one
rather nervously towards secomnd slip, but he had got enough bat on it
for it not to carry. Otherwise, though, 80 mph bowlers on a slow pitch
seemed not to be all that much of a threat.
A view clearly shared in the England dressing room over lunch, as the
afternoon session consisted of Trescothick and Strauss skipping along
at 4 an over as the seamers rotated, with an interlude from Vettori to
try and change the pace to no avail. By the time the drinks came out,
it had become apparent that we were simply going to have to wait for a
wicket until a batsman got tired enough to make a mistake because this
paceless attack was without venom on a placid pitch.
Trescothick nearly always looks pretty good against 82 mph bowling on
a slow pitch, and today was not one of the exceptions. He runs it down
to third man, spanks it through extra cover, and works it off his legs
and sweeps the spinner. As today's added bonus, he had the job both as
senior player and captain to help Strauss keep his concentration up in
his first Test innings.
Which was immensely important. For the most part, Strauss looked
composed and entirely at home. In many ways, he should have been,
since the bowling attack was very similar to the type of bowling he
faces week in, week out in county cricket, and it was his home ground.
But he had never before played in front of a packed house - and the
ground was about 90% full - and it was a Test match. Every hour or so,
through which he had played with complete assurance, he would play a
couple of very loose shots, though luckily he didn't usually connect,
and Trescothick would have to walk down to him and have a few words to
settle him down again.
Trescothick fell when Oram and Cairns had started a useful bowling
partnership. Cairns was nippy, up around the 85 mph mark, and bowling
aggressively while Oram plugged away on a Shaun Pollock sort of line,
reeling off maidens. Trescothick finally chased one he probably
shouldn't have and edged it to McCullum.
Strauss was on 89 at the time, and it took him an age to reach his
hundred. He was clearly feeling the pressure, and Fleming set fields
which challenged and frustrated him while Cairns and Oram starved him
of opportunities to score - not by bowling well wide, but with
excellent length and good line. He started lashing out, and was
fortunate that an intended off drive squeezed past the stumps for a
four to fine leg, which took him to 95. On 98, there were two
excellent cuts which were superbly fielded, and then, at last, he got
one through the field to become the first England player since John
Hampshire to make a century on Test debut at Lord's, an achievement
last recorded by Saurav Ganguly, and also the first since Hampshire to
score a debut ton in the first innings.
Strauss is an orthodox batsman. He drives well in the V, he cuts, he
pulls, he can sweep. He shapes tidily, and plays most of his shots
crisply and cleanly. One of the NZers on the radio comms was reminded
of Langer, but I don't really see that: I think Strauss is somewhat
more upright. He is good to watch, worth seeing but not worth making a
big effort to go and see.
He'd just clocked up his fifth hour at the crease and had reached 112
when Vettori came back on. He played rather ineffectually at one and
was gratefully caught by Richardson at forward short leg, which
brought Hoggard out as nightwatchman accompanying Butcher who ended on
22.
England are now 140 behind with 8 wickets left and three days to go.
They will obviously hope to bat all day tomorrow and on into Sunday
morning and get themselves a lead of 250 or so. There is little
obvious reason why this should be beyond them, given what we have seen
in this match so far.
There will be much more speculation for the moment about what the
England management are going to do with their nice new problem, that
of deciding which of their seven Test centurions to leave out when
Vaughan returns, probably for the next match. Since it's at
Headingley, the easy way out is to drop Giles and pack the batting,
but they may not be able to avoid making a decision at Trent Bridge.
Which will no doubt wonderfully concentrate the mind of Mr Hussain in
particular.
Cheers,
Mike
Langeveldt
Soutie
Good post..anzac said:ok - not seen any coverage yet so I've just got the reports / cricinfo / comments to go from.............
must say that yet again I am left frustrated by the NZL batting........... :****ed:
while a score of 386 looks good, IMO it flatters to decieve when you consider that there are only 5 contributions in double figures - 4 of them half tons & none going on to make a ton after getting a start!! Even less flattering when you consider the SR at which Astle, Oram & Cairns (esp) scored their runs at - 83, 81 & 174 respectively!!! Certainly entertaining, definately 'advancing the game', but also perhaps a little too much ODI mode & destined for a short but colourful duration. In contrast Richardson's top score SR was at a touch under 35!!!
The innings exemplified the best & worst of a batting lineup heavy with 'hitters' rather than 'stroke makers' - the boxing analogy of punchers v boxers comes to mind.......and I am more convinced of my concerns regarding the need of a Martyn / Dravid type to provide some consistency to the innings.
While Richardson provides a Rock of Gibraltar type presence, I am also convinced that he is not easy to bat with for the 'punchers' in the NZL batting lineup, as it becomes all too easy for him to dominate the strike & the innings momentum to grind to a halt - resulting in his partners getting frustrated & often holing out. Similarly the 'punchers' also need to have the strike taken away from them at times to allow the red mist to dissipate & thus allow the partnership to flourish & the innings to reap the benefit of their work - but this does not mean starving them of it.
Already in contrast the ENG batsmen have indicated a consistency & continuity that the NZL batting lacks IMO.......and a belated congrads to Strauss re his ton on debut & at Lords (so what if it's his Home ground for his County).
Both bowling attacks have so far struggled somewhat, although ENG must be pleased to see that the pair that took the belting on Day 1 respond so emphaticaly on Day 2. NZL will be hoping for a similar response from their attack on Day 3, as they have already passed the total for extras from the NZL innings, particularly by having given up 3x as many nb as ENG in 3/4 the same number of overs!!!!
If NZL managed to 'save' Day 1 via Oram's innings in the last session, then stumps on Day 2 sees ENG with the acendancy. The NZL bowling attack must respond quickly on Day 3 or the ENG batsmen by Lunch will be in a position to be able to set the tone for the remainder of this match - possibly the series....
I think what can be drawn from the test so far is the need for a happy medium between biffing and blocking... To be honest, apart from Nasser Hussain, all the England batsmen have the ability to cruise at a nice run rate, or change the pace depending on circumstances... (Even Freddie scored a very patient century in the WI)..
This NZ side has a distinctly one day feel about it.. Cairns and Oram worked today, but NZ wont want Astle, Oram and Cairns around when a test match needs saving on a poor batting pitch... Ive got no worries about Richardson because I feel every side needs a rock to operate around.. What you dont need is more than one of these guys...
Havent seen much of Richardson, but he looks very very under rated.. Sad really... Definitely a Gary Kirsten...
Langeveldt
Soutie
And a bit of a random point, but what do New Zealand have in the spin cupboard apart from Wiseman and Vettori??
Its good to see such evenly matched teams fighting it out, but I cant help but feel NZ have much more to offer in the way of spin in the coming years...
Its good to see such evenly matched teams fighting it out, but I cant help but feel NZ have much more to offer in the way of spin in the coming years...
Surely it must have been one of the low scores where it was all over inside 20 overs and no 4th bowler was needed thoughmarc71178 said:
I totally agree there, Giles on his day can be great but what's the point of keeping him in the side when he is bowling less and less and all he is offering is a few heathly runs down the order. An extra batsman who can bowl a bit would be just as good as Giles, I would even promote Vaughan to bowl a greater role (and keep Strauss) but I think that's a bit unfair to ask him to Open, Captain, Bowl and everything else he has to do, BUT between Tresco, Butcher and Vaughan we could easily cover what bowling Giles does in a innings.... I think for this match someone like Butcher could be a good shout to bowl anyway as bowling slighty slower might help the ball to swing more and he has a great record at Lord'smarc71178 said:
Marc/Anyone who was the other drop? I didn't see alot of the days play, but only remember the Strauss drop going down when he was in the 90's.marc71178 said:
If your looking for a spinner and who can bat I would suggest.marc71178 said:
- J.Treadwell
- M.Patel
- R.Ferley
- They think iam going of on a kent one but they will be wrong :P
- J.Middlebrook
- G.Swann
Purley on spinners that can bat a bit, who haven't already been tried and tested by England (bar Min but he plays for Kent so has to be there
)Pace wise D Mascarenhas is a pretty decent allrounder, probley more a OD player but has done well consistanty and this season scored runs at 25 and bowling has 25 @ 10.25!
Last edited:
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Actually we bowled 42 overs in about 3 and a half hours...Rich2001 said:Surely it must have been one of the low scores where it was all over inside 20 overs and no 4th bowler was needed though
Rich2001 said:
McCullum - Trescothick gloved a short one and he couldn't hold on.