*Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

How can Vaughan be classified as two different batsmen? He's the same man and certainly not an inferior batsman.

He's the same man, yes, but how many batsmen have you seen who are the same regardless of batting position? For me, it's zero.
Vaughan the middle-order player is IMO a very good one; Vaughan the opener is IMO not anywhere near as good. First-chance averages show this quite clearly; fortunately in the last 12 months (excluding meaningless Bangladesh games) luck has dried-up and scorebook averages have been an accurate reflection.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He's the same man, yes, but how many batsmen have you seen who are the same regardless of batting position? For me, it's zero.

That'll change when you see me bat.

Equally crap from 1 to 11.

 

[marc71178]

Vaughan the opener

The same Vaughan who for a period last year had the highest average as an opener in Test history?

OK...

 

[marc71178]

That'll change when you see me bat.

Equally crap from 1 to 11.

But do you deserve to be so crap?

And, more importantly, what is your first chance average?

 

[Craig]

Does Neil have one?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

No one has one. It simply does not exist. The rules of cricket dictate that dropped catches etc. be accounted for as far as to allow the batsman to continue his innings. 'Chances' are part of the game. People are human and these things happen.

 

[Richard]

Liam, of course it exists. You, and others, simply do not value it so do not worry about what it is.
However, it exists. And I use it.

 

[Richard]

But do you deserve to be so crap?

And, more importantly, what is your first chance average?

"Deserve to be crap" - that one I've not heard before!

 

[Richard]

The same Vaughan who for a period last year had the highest average as an opener in Test history?

OK...

Yep - and the same Vaughan who scored over 500 runs which would not have been scored but for let-offs.
Fortunately, that luck seems to have ended now, and while he did score 3 thoroughly good 146+ scores (at The Oval, MCG and SCG) the rest of his Test opening career has not produced impressive first-chance returns.
What's more, it is now 25 Tests long.

 

[Richard]

That'll change when you see me bat.

Equally crap from 1 to 11.

Well, that's true for me too (though if we play in the same team we will be nine and eight - NO-ONE takes Jeff and Michael's places at ten and eleven).
I did mention the word batsmen, didn't I?:duh:

 

[marc71178]

Liam, of course it exists.

Where is it then?

Cricinfo don't seem to have it on their site...

 

[Tom Halsey]

That'll change when you see me bat.

Equally crap from 1 to 11.

LOL!!

You really are modest. :P

 

[SquidAU]

I seriously would like to find out about these first chance averages.....Richard, do you have a site where you can get them from or you do this by yourself.....and I mean it, I would like to see 'first chance' averages for all batsmen, through out cricketing history.....might make for interesting reading!

Jeez, lucky I spotted the spelling mistakes or the Grammar Nazi would be after me!!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I did mention the word batsmen, didn't I?:duh:

Any player who is operating a bat is a batsman. What you should say is 'specialist batsman'.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Jeez, lucky I spotted the spelling mistakes or the Grammar Nazi would be after me!!

Sure would!! :P

 

[Neil Pickup]

Well, that's true for me too (though if we play in the same team we will be nine and eight - NO-ONE takes Jeff and Michael's places at ten and eleven).
I did mention the word batsmen, didn't I?:duh:

By 'eck. I'll be getting nosebleeds if I ain't careful.

Actually, I've batted at 7 three times (LBW 0, Bowled 0, Bowled 0), 5 once (Bowled 6) and 2 once (Bowled 2).

 

[Armadillo]

i think we should all stop giving richard:duh: such a hard time. wat does everyone else think.....................

waiting to be rioted

 

[Craig]

I seriously would like to find out about these first chance averages.....Richard, do you have a site where you can get them from or you do this by yourself.....and I mean it, I would like to see 'first chance' averages for all batsmen, through out cricketing history.....might make for interesting reading!

Jeez, lucky I spotted the spelling mistakes or the Grammar Nazi would be after me!!

You spelt Grammer wrong.

 

[marc71178]

ROFLMAO @ Craig.

 

[Richard]

By 'eck. I'll be getting nosebleeds if I ain't careful.

Actually, I've batted at 7 three times (LBW 0, Bowled 0, Bowled 0), 5 once (Bowled 6) and 2 once (Bowled 2).

Jeff has opened with me once and batted me at three at least twice (both when I was an under-16).
I wore something called a helmet. Nosebleeds are generally averted by these. The problem for me comes in being hit in the chest.

Originally posted by Liam
Any player who is operating a bat is a batsman. What you should say is 'specialist batsman'.

True.