*Official** New Zealand in England

[Pedro Delgado]

It's because I largely agree with you that I have been trying to work out exactly why he has failed so often. As far as I can see, my explanation fits the known facts, and other, simpler theories are too easy to give counterexamples to.

If someone's got a better theory, it would be nice to read it.


Cheers,

Mike

Not a better theory per se, just an idea - Basic footwork technique.
Ok I know the fellow can bat and bat very well on some occasions, and he has scored a good few runs, but can he remain consistent with hardly any foot movement either way? He'll get found out more times than he won't, surely.

I'm no expert, just something I've noticed (and others obviously) about him.

 

[badgerhair]

Not a better theory per se, just an idea - Basic footwork technique.
Ok I know the fellow can bat and bat very well on some occasions, and he has scored a good few runs, but can he remain consistent with hardly any foot movement either way? He'll get found out more times than he won't, surely.

I'm no expert, just something I've noticed (and others obviously) about him.

Lots of people have said "No footwork, he'll never succeed consistently."

But you don't get a Test average of 42.75 by being unsuccessful. Carl Hooper was inconsistent, and most other famously inconsistent batsmen also have averages in the mid-30s.

Trescothick is actually very consistent. He has a Test average of about 43, but he doesn't average that for a series: he either averages 25 or he averages 60. On a consistent basis. Which suggests that there are some opening attacks which can get him out and others he can whack all over the place. Consistently.

Gillespie has his number. Best and Edwards got him with disconcerting regularity. He fell to Ntini rather too often last year against RSA.

He had a dreadful series in New Zealand, which I think was because he was just right out of form, which happens; and a poor series in Sri Lanka where he mostly fell to spinners, one of whom was getting batsmen out with an illegal delivery, so he can hardly be blamed too heavily.

The bowlers who have most frequently got him are all fast - 88mph+ - and able to move the ball across him. If a side does not possess such a bowler, Trescothick will score lots of runs. At least, he has done so throughout his career so far.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

Big words to say that Fleming is an ignoramus, let alone to say it's "obvious", let alone to say that we are experts. If you were such an expert, you would know a lot better than to put yourself above (correct me if I'm wrong) the third most experienced captain in test history, and arguably one of the best captains in cricket history.

Very big words indeed.

Not read anything else to follow Mike's and Bob's posts in the thread yet, so I'm jumping in with both feet (but hey, why change the habits of a lifetime?).....

Mike's NOT calling Fleming an ignoramus - rather, he's having a dig at the prople who regularly post here who look at reputations and make their judgements based upon the judgements of others. On the contrary - he's praising Fleming (a little)

Edit:...... Whew!

 

[luckyeddie]

It's because I largely agree with you that I have been trying to work out exactly why he has failed so often. As far as I can see, my explanation fits the known facts, and other, simpler theories are too easy to give counterexamples to.

If someone's got a better theory, it would be nice to read it.


Cheers,

Mike

OK - packed diagnosis based upon just having a think. I know nothing about bio-mechanics, but I used to coach kids in a mechanical sport which relies a lot on hand-eye co-ordination. It might be total garbage, it might be something which applies to every batsman, or it just might make someone think that the old fat guy who knows nothing about cricket isn't totally senile after all.......

Because of the tendency for the feet to 'drag' a little in the shot (it's not really a positive foot movement, more a redistribution of weight) there's the tendency early in the innings for his weight to be on his heels rather that the balls of his feet. This changes the torso angle and consequently the relative position of the shoulders in comparison to the feet (I think - it seems obvious to me that it should because I am a tenpin bowling coach - and the 'drive' position in cricket and how you get into it is so similar to the position you should deliver a ball from).

It strikes me that if the batsman's centre of gravity is at or behind the front heel whilst playing a shot 'off the front foot' (even if the foot is going towards the pitch of the ball), there's no way the head can be over or in line with the ball when the bat makes contact. Therefore, the bat has to be 'angled' when being swung towards the ball, giving a tendency for the batsman to strike the ball uppishly to wide slips or gulley if the batsman is late on the shot (or if he is early or the ball does not bounce high enough, there will be a tendency to 'drag the ball on').

I'm going for 'senile' myself.

 

[Craig]

Yes, we've left half our World Cup Winning side out, so anything other than a heavy defeat will be a good result for us.

And you managed to be playing the us at Dunedin, the one place who don't really want to play the All Blacks, and at Eden Park.

 

[Craig]

Even with all the six-ball no-balls? That almost gave away a match to the South Africans!

Different form of the game.

 

[luckyeddie]

And you managed to be playing the us at Dunedin, the one place who don't really want to play the All Blacks, and at Eden Park.

I read somewhere that England had won their twelve previous games against South Africa, Australia and New Zealand (I could be wrong - I'm not that interested in rugby union). It seems that it didn't really matter where they played - they were likely to win.

 

[Craig]

LOL

I wonder if they drew it on purpose, knowing that they then play the Solomon Islands in the final rather than New Zealand?

Either way, wouldn't it be funny if the Solomons qualified for the play off?!

It would.

If they played against Uruguay, we will see a glorifyied Uruguay u-21 side or a second string Uruguay side, as I doubt we would see people like Recoba playing against the Solomon Islands (well Inter would not be too impressed if he got injured against them).

 

[Craig]

I read somewhere that England had won their twelve previous games against South Africa, Australia and New Zealand (I could be wrong - I'm not that interested in rugby union). It seems that it didn't really matter where they played - they were likely to win.

How many of them were at Twickenham?

Sersiously, the All Blacks have a almost impeccable record there.

 

[luckyeddie]

How many of them were at Twickenham?

Sersiously, the All Blacks have a almost impeccable record there.

I haven't a clue - and I'm certainly not going to look. As I said, I'm not really interested in rugby union, but if it winds you up, I'm sure I could become so for a few minutes.
Get over it, or I shall put "Solomon Islands - the best football team in Oceania" in my signature.

 

[MoxPearl]

nz to clean up england in the rugby by FAR (hey a thousand times more people like rugby in nz than cricket u know :P )

also if martin plays in ths 3rd test i will be VERY disapointed.. u dont reward someone for a completly **** game by letting them play again.. and we do have replacements for him..

i HOPE adams will play. but im sure they will save him for the ODIS...

Adams and Taylor MUST play for nz on this tour

 

[Pedro Delgado]

nz to clean up england in the rugby by FAR (hey a thousand times more people like rugby in nz than cricket u know :P )

Yes, but cricket is a "thousand times" the better game old boy


Beat that bunch of women on the "Rugger" field on Saturday if it makes you feel better, but the real action will be taking place at Trent Bridge this coming weekend.
And I'll be there on Friday!!!



Sorry that could seem quite offensive to the ladies, let's say "beat that bunch of egg-chasing prats" instead.

 

[Craig]

I haven't a clue - and I'm certainly not going to look. As I said, I'm not really interested in rugby union, but if it winds you up, I'm sure I could become so for a few minutes.
Get over it, or I shall put "Solomon Islands - the best football team in Oceania" in my signature.

Touché

 

[PY]

but the real action will be taking place at Trent Bridge this coming weekend.
And I'll be there on Friday!!!

I was thinking about popping down to Trent Bridge on Friday too (I'm in Sheffield) but I can't really understand the website and how to get tickets.

But from what I can think I see, it costs £45 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Not exactly condusive to students.

 

[Craig]

Yes, but cricket is a "thousand times" the better game old boy


Beat that bunch of women on the "Rugger" field on Saturday if it makes you feel better, but the real action will be taking place at Trent Bridge this coming weekend.
And I'll be there on Friday!!!

Pedro are you 'A Clockwork Orange' fan?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

I was thinking about popping down to Trent Bridge on Friday too (I'm in Sheffield) but I can't really understand the website and how to get tickets.

But from what I can think I see, it costs £45 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Not exactly condusive to students.

Well I try to be a student of the game......more GCSE standard though...

Yes it is rather dear; my mate bought the tickets on the credit card months back, go on PY stick it on the never-never!!

 

[Craig]

I was thinking about popping down to Trent Bridge on Friday too (I'm in Sheffield) but I can't really understand the website and how to get tickets.

But from what I can think I see, it costs £45 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Not exactly condusive to students.

Go if you can afford it.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Pedro are you 'A Clockwork Orange' fan?

More a McDowell fan, Craig. Just using the chap until a better avatar comes along, can't seem to find one of Mike Brearley as-yet..

 

[MoxPearl]

I was thinking about popping down to Trent Bridge on Friday too (I'm in Sheffield) but I can't really understand the website and how to get tickets.

But from what I can think I see, it costs £45 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Not exactly condusive to students.

**** man.. like i said.. i cant BELIVE How much it costs in england..!

someones making alot of money

 

[PY]

Cheers Pedro, if I ever needed any kind of an incentive to actually get myself a credit card the cricket would be an excellent reason. Although if the doomsayers are to be believed, student + credit card = disaster.

Unfortunately, as Friday is my last day of the first year at uni and I finish my exams tomorrow and am going out tomorrow night....I fully expect all my remaining cash to be used to render myself unconscious.

Having said that, that might mean I just have to buy a hammer for £2.50 and hit myself over the head because that is about as far as my resources stretch.

£45 = Aus$118