***Official*** IndianOil Cup in Sri Lanka

[Arjun]

what thats suppose to mean mate, form what i remember of Yadav againts the windies in 2002 he is no where near to Rana.

When Rana bowled his first comeback over against the Indians, he gave away 17 runs in one ball, with four no-balls being spanked to the boundary. Now he's a new-ball bowler who's done well for his team.

Why can't Yadav do just as well? He too got just six overs in a series full of flat pitches where evene his more experienced counterparts got smashed all around without getting too many.

Moreover, that was a long time ago. Dinosaurs don't walk the streets anymore. Since that series, Yadav has taken it upon himself to play as a strike bowler in his team so that he can force his way back into the Indian side through a very relevant position.

 

[Arjun]

They do need a churning in their batting thats for sure. J.P.Yadav, Raina or who is the answer to that, we will know in time.

Regarding Kaif being referred to as the number 7 batsman not used much, it has been a combination which was fairly successful. Most teams bat deep in one dayers, and specialist batsmen at 7 are not uncommon.

• If that combination was really successful, they would have won more than just two ODI tournaments.
• Kaif was a specialist batsman. He's in the team to score big tons most of the time, not score in bits and pieces.
• Any big success was because of top-order failures.
• They don't need a Mohammed Kaif at number seven, who'll play for a big innings all the time. They need quick scorers at seven and eight, which Yadav and an in-form Irfan can do quite well.

 

[Pratters]

• If that combination was really successful, they would have won more than just two ODI tournaments.

• 
  
  Clearly discounting the number of finals the team reached. It faced a finals jinx of sorts which I have never seen before or afterwards.
  

  [*]Kaif was a specialist batsman. He's in the team to score big tons most of the time, not score in bits and pieces.

  Not really when the team bats him at number 7.
  

  [*]Any big success was because of top-order failures.

  come again?
  
  

  [*]They don't need a Mohammed Kaif at number seven, who'll play for a big innings all the time. They need quick scorers at seven and eight, which Yadav and an in-form Irfan can do quite well.

And Raina is an agressive batsman and so what is your point?

 

[Arjun]

In the last of three practice matches (this was between India and India-A), India were chasing 293 and Sehwag, Laxman, Yuvraj, Kaif and Dravid were out cheaply. Then came Dhoni and Yadav, when the score was 74/5. Dhoni got 123 in 89 balls, with 11 fours and 3 sixes. Yadav scored 86, with 3 fours and 3 sixes. Skeptics may complain about the quality of opposition, but at least this is a start. For India-A, Gambhir got 32 and Raina, 53. No web coverage yet.

 

[Pratters]

Raina, 53. No web coverage yet.

Raina got a 90 some thing in one of the practise matches. But these matches are nothing but just better alternatives to net sessions. Real match play always better a practise.

 

[Arjun]

come again?

• Natwest Final (84*)- Dinesh Mongia, Sachin Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid got out for less than 20 together.
• ICC Trophy 2002, v/s Zimbabwe (117)- Ganguly, Mongia, Tendulkar and Yuvraj got out cheaply, while Sehwag got out when he got a start.
• NatWest Challenge opener, ??? (54)- A terrible position, with barely 80 runs scored, five wickets were down.

In both occasions, he got plenty of overs to bat. There was one exception, where he came in at four and took on the England bowlers, finding a few gaps, to score 70-odd.

 

[Run like Inzy]

India have a good team already and I think there are no need to make such drastic changes yet. They should see what affect Greg Chappell has on the team. Their goal shoud be to win this tournament. A weak West Indian team gives them an opportunity to try a few players but remember what happened against Bangladesh?? They should play a regular team and see what happens. If somebody is seriously out of form they should be replaced otherwise the current team has the experience which is vital when playing Sri Lanka at home (a very good side at home).

 

[Arjun]

Not really when the team bats him at number 7.

Specialist batsmen are only picked for big scores, not bits-and-pieces contributions. Any non-specialist can do the same.

 

[Arjun]

And Raina is an agressive batsman and so what is your point?

He's in the team to score big, and that's not something a number seven can do very often.

Raina got a 90 some thing in one of the practise matches. But these matches are nothing but just better alternatives to net sessions. Real match play always better a practise.

That was in the first match, where they fielded 14 players a side. This last match was a typical eleven-a-side match.

 

[Pratters]

A terrible position, with barely 80 runs scored, five wickets were down.[/list]In both occasions, he got plenty of overs to bat. There was one exception, where he came in at four and took on the England bowlers, finding a few gaps, to score 70-odd.

Kaif's role has mostly been to score runs quickly lower down the order with few overs to go. And the fact that he can run fast and take quick singles also means he has been given the role of number 7. Whether he has been successful or not is disputable but that is essentially his role.

The fact that he has scored some big runs when the team has collapsed early is a good thing. But India has collapsed so many times in the last two years. Kaif has not always been able to overhaul that position you are talking about. More often than not he has failed in fact in that role.

 

[Pratters]

He's in the team to score big, and that's not something a number seven can do very often.

I am not saying it would be best for Raina to bat at number 7. I can see him batting higher up. Not unrealistic. But just showing he isnt out of sorts at no. 7. I dont know why you are so against Raina being selected!

 

[Arjun]

India have a good team already and I think there are no need to make such drastic changes yet. They should see what affect Greg Chappell has on the team. Their goal shoud be to win this tournament. A weak West Indian team gives them an opportunity to try a few players but remember what happened against Bangladesh?? They should play a regular team and see what happens. If somebody is seriously out of form they should be replaced otherwise the current team has the experience which is vital when playing Sri Lanka at home (a very good side at home).

1. You've got to be joking. A very good team at number 8 in the rankings?
2. Forget about Bangaldesh. Repeatedly, when they played a full-strength team against Sri Lanka, Pakistan, England and Australia, did they win anything?
3. What's the harm in trying a few things different? Except for Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid, nobodyelse has done enough in the ODI side.
4. The current Indian side has experience of losing over 25 ODI's against SL in SL and winning only 4. A new side will be free of such baggage.

 

[Arjun]

Kaif's role has mostly been to score runs quickly lower down the order with few overs to go. And the fact that he can run fast and take quick singles also means he has been given the role of number 7. Whether he has been successful or not is disputable but that is essentially his role.

The fact that he has scored some big runs when the team has collapsed early is a good thing. But India has collapsed so many times in the last two years. Kaif has not always been able to overhaul that position you are talking about. More often than not he has failed in fact in that role.

It is unfortunate that there have been so many collapses which Kaif has had to rectify. But that's the problem- he's got far, far more to do as a batsman at seven, than at four. The number seven position is a thankless one for a specialist batsman. However, if you noticed that there's been a weak link in the top six, including opening, you would know why Kaif has got so many chances. Replace the out-of-form Dinesh Mongia or Sourav Ganguly with Kaif, and he'd come in under a lot less pressure. I'm not fully against Kaif's selection, or against Raina's. But these two are specialist batsmen, so they're expected to make big scores, which a number 7 can't do all the time. So play them at four and five, or don't pick them at all.

 

[Run like Inzy]

1. You've got to be joking. A very good team at number 8 in the rankings?
2. Forget about Bangaldesh. Repeatedly, when they played a full-strength team against Sri Lanka, Pakistan, England and Australia, did they win anything?
3. What's the harm in trying a few things different? Except for Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid, nobodyelse has done enough in the ODI side.
4. The current Indian side has experience of losing over 25 ODI's against SL in SL and winning only 4. A new side will be free of such baggage.

1. The difference between 4th place Pakistan (109) and and 8th place India (98) is just 11 points. If India win the series they will climp there way up soon
2. Bangladesh beat you and the aussies although it was a one off in India's case it was due to the trying out of many new players.
3. There is no harm in trying new players if your willing to lose a few games. However if India let there experienced side have a crack at the windies they may come back into form.
4. Yeah but the new players fail the trend will continue. They should be brought in gradually into an experienced Indian line up.

 

[aussie]

When Rana bowled his first comeback over against the Indians, he gave away 17 runs in one ball, with four no-balls being spanked to the boundary. Now he's a new-ball bowler who's done well for his team.

Why can't Yadav do just as well? He too got just six overs in a series full of flat pitches where evene his more experienced counterparts got smashed all around without getting too many.

Moreover, that was a long time ago. Dinosaurs don't walk the streets anymore. Since that series, Yadav has taken it upon himself to play as a strike bowler in his team so that he can force his way back into the Indian side through a very relevant position.

fair enoguh but i would like u tell me whats wrong with this full strenght indian ODI XI:

Sehwag
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Yuvraj
Dravid
Kaif
Dhoni
Yadav
Pathan
Agarkar
Harbhajan
Khan

 

[shankar]

fair enoguh but i would like u tell me whats wrong with this full strenght indian ODI XI:

Sehwag
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Yuvraj
Dravid
Kaif
Yadav
Pathan
Agarkar
Harbhajan
Khan

The fact that there's no keeper?

 

[aussie]

The fact that there's no keeper?

oops, i'll go edit...

 

[honestbharani]

Nobody can get 56 wickets in 12 matches being a Ronnie Irani act. Besides, such bowlers can be used to good effect in the middle/final overs. Scott Styris isn't even a regular 130+ bowler, but what he does is enough for NZ.

I meant as a new ball bowler.

 

[honestbharani]

fair enoguh but i would like u tell me whats wrong with this full strenght indian ODI XI:

Sehwag
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Yuvraj
Dravid
Kaif
Dhoni
Yadav
Pathan
Agarkar
Harbhajan
Khan

I like your side, actually. I will put Zaheer ahead of Pathan and I will open the bowling with Zaheer and JP Yadav (AA is useless during the first spell) and then have Zaheer and AA bowling atleast the last 6 or 8 overs (they are the closest we have got in terms of yorker and into the stumps bowlers) and let the others bowl out in the middle overs. With the super sub rule, I would also like to swap Harbhajan for Laxman ( or some other batter) if we bat second.

 

[Arjun]

1. The difference between 4th place Pakistan (109) and and 8th place India (98) is just 11 points. If India win the series they will climp there way up soon
2. Bangladesh beat you and the aussies although it was a one off in India's case it was due to the trying out of many new players.
3. There is no harm in trying new players if your willing to lose a few games. However if India let there experienced side have a crack at the windies they may come back into form.
4. Yeah but the new players fail the trend will continue. They should be brought in gradually into an experienced Indian line up.

1. These days, it may be difficult to even gain one point. For the Indians to win the series, they need a new plan, in selection and strategy.
2. Compare India's solitary defeat against B'Desh with their many defeats agaisnt Lanka, England, Pakistan and Australia, and you would notice that the frontliners had let the team down a lot more than the newcomers- and that also includes that maych where Sehwag, Yuvraj, Mongia and even Ganguly got out cheaply, while Sriram and Joginder (who's a bowler) batted a lot better. Why blame newcomers for a few mistakes when the frontliners are making the same mistakes time and again, and have been shown up?
3. The experienced Indian side creamed the Bangles and Arabs in the Asia cup, but lost to a wide awake Pak/Lanka opposition. It does not matter even if they lose that odd match againt the West Indian B side, as long as they win matches against the Lankans, which matter. Australia lost one match to B'Desh, but saved the final of one ODI series and won the NatWest Challenge.
4. Not everyone can have have a dream debut like Sachin Tendulkar. There are a few players who have a lot of potential and are very relevant from the point of view of the team, so they have to be persisted with, even with all those hiccups.

fair enoguh but i would like u tell me whats wrong with this full strenght indian ODI XI:

• Four seamers is an unusual lineup, unless bowling seam-up with an old ball is a special skill.
• Maybe I have said this once too often, but Ganguly should not be in a one-day side given his lack of contribution in fielding and running between the wickets. Even extras from the Aussie ODI side can field a lot better.
• This side may have been picked with the super-sub rule in mind, so it's difficult to comment. However, if there are less than ten overs left, even more so if the final five overs are on, one of the top six batsmen should miss out, then send in Yadav and Irfan.
• Is Irfan really in the right form to have him in the side? Let him start taking wickets and scoring runs for Baroda/Reserves first.
• They can try out some young tyke and he can't do far worse than Agarkar, at least if he's a few inches taller.
• Zaheer and Harbhajan should be the key strikers who should go for the wickets, while the others should just support them with proper line-and-length bowling. Difficult to say that for Yadav, though- he tries every trick in the book.