**Official** India v Pakistan

[Sanz]

so thats 5.4mm further away than what Neil said

Yes, when we are measuring in cms and inches every mm matters. Anyways point is Tendulkar was not out and If I believe cricinfo :-

"... the daylight between bat and ball was visible from the press box, at the furthest and highest part of the ground. Bucknor, after his usual deliberation, lifted his finger."

It was a horrendous decision and will most likely decide the outcome of this match. I am glad that Calcutta Crowd has remained calm,

Enuff Said on this issue. I am just waiting for TEC to come and claim that Tendulkar chokes in pressure. Infact Dileep Premchandran Summed it up very well in is column today :-

"Tendulkar, though, will have no part to play in what promises to be an intriguing penultimate day. A few weeks from now, jealous mediocrity will crawl out of the woodwork and nibble at his reputation, citing that inability to apply the finishing touches. In a democracy, that must be tolerated, as were the Philistines who mocked and persecuted Galileo. Only those who sat and watched a gorgeous sunrise obscured by a man-made storm can appreciate how close a supreme batting artist came to painting in the one blank space in an otherwise breathtaking canvas. "

 

[Arjun]

Back to Fourth Umpire....Roshni "Let's NOT Enjoy" Chopra was meeowing about the Bucknor decision when that programme started.

Caller#1 on NDTV's Turning Point (a more sensible, watchable and tolerable show- a LOT more) asked whether it is fair for analysts to discuss the umpires' decisions in such detail. Sidhu says that LBWs are given even when there are batsmen attempting to play the ball. He also mentioned one umpire who gave Jadeja out long ago, only to vanish from the scene- he took it a little too hard.

 

[Arjun]

Yes okay, Tendulkar wasn't out. Let's move on now.

You may take other CricketWeb posters seriously, but don't, and I repeat, DON'T follow what's said on that other site! They're the subject of jokes, which is what that article may be.

 

[Adamc]

Right, here y'are. This is taken from Rajeev's video clip, and blown up by 450% (warning, big image)

The gap between ball and bat is 21 pixels. I've also plotted the 21 pixels on the shoulder of the bat - it comes about 75% from the bottom of the rubber handle to the edge of the blade. Whilst I don't know how wide Sachin's bat is, I do know that the handle to blade distance on my V500 is 14mm. 14mm × 0.75 = 10.5mm. Even given measurement error, I stand by my 2cm maximum,

The size of the gap is about 1/6th of the diameter of the cricket ball shown there. Since the circumference of a cricket ball is 9-9.25 inches (roughly 22.9-23.5cm), the diameter of the ball should be about 7.3-7.5cm. 1/6th of that then is 12.5mm at most. That said, it clearly wasn't out; still no reason for the whole of India to be baying for Bucknor's blood though.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It was a horrendous decision and will most likely decide the outcome of this match. I am glad that Calcutta Crowd has remained calm,

Oh come on. A bad decision? Sure. Match-turning? Not even close. India still have Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman and a pretty handy tail to come, and a healthy lead. Even if Pakistan were to go on to win this match, how exactly would the Tendulkar decision have decided the outcome? There's still two days and an innings and a half left in the match!

 

[Sanz]

Even given measurement error, I stand by my 2cm maximum,

You can stand by your 2 cm and continue to justify the decision by claiming that Taibu was out by a bigger margin, but the fact remains that Pakistani players knew Sachin was not out, Sachin knew, Commentators sitting mile away knew and the fans knew, even Bucknor knew well until he decided to raise his finger.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

even Bucknor knew well until he decided to raise his finger.

Obviously Bucknor didn't know or he wouldn't have given it out, unless you are accusing him of cheating for the Pakistani team.

 

[Sanz]

That said, it clearly wasn't out; still no reason for the whole of India to be baying for Bucknor's blood though.

Relax, no one is baying for Bucknor's blood, while we discuss this, He is probably resting in his five star hotel suite and punching in the air saying 'Dont you fools mess with me again'

He will still get his goodies after the match and there is a good chance that Tendulkar will be fined for dissent.

 

[Neil Pickup]

You can stand by your 2 cm and continue to justify the decision by claiming that Taibu was out by a bigger margin, but the fact remains that Pakistani players knew Sachin was not out, Sachin knew, Commentators sitting mile away knew and the fans knew, even Bucknor knew well until he decided to raise his finger.

Where have I ever justified it? It's obviously wrong, but all I've pointed out is that comments such as "2-3 inches" are vastly off the mark, and it's not even the worst decision we've had this month. People have been making it out to be the worst decision ever made, likely to cost India the match, series, Test status and their independence, opening the gates the the invading Bhutan army.

 

[Sanz]

Obviously Bucknor didn't know or he wouldn't have given it out, unless you are accusing him of cheating for the Pakistani team.

Dude, ever heard the word 'Prejudice'.

This was written a year ago, but still relevent.
http://www.cricket.net/link_to_data.../2004/JAN/037793_AUSIND2003-04_06JAN2004.html

 

[shankar]

Where have I ever justified it? It's obviously wrong, but all I've pointed out is that comments such as "2-3 inches" are vastly off the mark, and it's not even the worst decision we've had this month. People have been making it out to be the worst decision ever made, likely to cost India the match, series, Test status and their independence, opening the gates the the invading Bhutan army.

Dont base your decision on Rajeev's clip where it's not very clear. If you'd seen it in real time, you'd have seen that it was very obvious to everybody that it wasnt out. You could see the slip fieldsmen with their hands on their heads ruing the fact that the ball missed the bat. It was definitely not the worst decision ever, but a horrendous one nevertheless.

 

[Sanz]

Where have I ever justified it? It's obviously wrong, but all I've pointed out is that comments such as "2-3 inches" are vastly off the mark, and it's not even the worst decision we've had this month. People have been making it out to be the worst decision ever made, likely to cost India the match, series, Test status and their independence, opening the gates the the invading Bhutan army.

Dont get excited, If it was not justification then what was the point of bringing in Taibu's decision in the discussion ?

Who care if it was not the worst decision in this month, year, decade or century, it was a poor decision and given by Mr. Bucknor who has repeatedly done it against Tendulkar.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Dude, ever heard the word 'Prejudice'.

This was written a year ago, but still relevent.
http://www.cricket.net/link_to_data.../2004/JAN/037793_AUSIND2003-04_06JAN2004.html

Errm. Firstly, that article is about the introduction of technology and the percieved poor quality of Steve Bucknor's umpiring, NOT about prejudice. And secondly, while I am familiar with the word, I'd like to hope that no serious cricket fan was idiotic enough to assume that an umpire was "prejudiced" against their team because he made an error.

And, if you do believe the Bucknor is cheating to assist the Pakistani team or harm the Indian team, I'd be inclined to wonder why you think it's any different in this case than when umpiring errors go against any other side, apart from the fact that the team you support is on the wrong end of it.

When, for example, Nathan Hauritz was given out in a terrible decision in the dying moments of the 4th test in Mumbai last year, potentially costing Australia a win, was that about prejudice? How about the aforementioned decision suffered by Tatenda Taibu? How about Billy Bowden and Peter Parker? Are they prejudiced against New Zealand? Or is Billy prejudiced against India? How about Clive Lloyd and Michael Vaughan?

Crying about umpiring decisions is bad enough at the best of times, but accusing an umpire of cheating because they make a mistake is a significant step worse.

 

[Arjun]

Relax, no one is baying for Bucknor's blood

If you had watched Fourth Umpire on DD Sports, you would think twice. All the experts, including Roshni 'Meow' Chopra (expert?) and all the callers were complaining about it throughout that session.

Oh...totally forgot about that other forum!

 

[ReallyCrazy]

OK so Sachin was not out but we all know the fact that he was out on 9 in the last test and went on to make 94. So these things even themselves out.

I'm unhappy about both decisions.

However, I'm not OK with Bucknor making this bad call. If it was some other umpire, I would have been fine with it. Bucknor has made too many bad calls of late and it is becoming his norm. He should be fired. None of the pakistanis were really appealing and he still gave sachin out. As an umpire, it is fine to make mistakes sometimes but not so obvious mistakes like Bucknor has been doing. I mean, i was watching on tv and i knew that sachin did not get a nick.

 

[Swervy]

Crying about umpiring decisions is bad enough at the best of times, but accusing an umpire of cheating because they make a mistake is a significant step worse.

and yet it is something we hear almost ever series India play in

 

[ReallyCrazy]

and yet it is something we hear almost ever series India play in

The fact is swervy, we only do it against Bucknor. I'm sure you will agree he has given some shockers against India every time he officiates. The guy has lost his reflexes and his eyesight. He should retire when he has some respect left rather than getting fired. How can an umpire standing in his 100th test give a batter out when pakistan did not even really appeal?

 

[Swervy]

The fact is swervy, we only do it against Bucknor. I'm sure you will agree he has given some shockers against India every time he officiates.

he may well have given shockers..but I think its going to far to accuse an umpire of cheating..of course if there were any evidence of cheating then fair enough

 

[Sanz]

Errm. Firstly, that article is about the introduction of technology and the percieved poor quality of Steve Bucknor's umpiring, NOT about prejudice. And secondly, while I am familiar with the word, I'd like to hope that no serious cricket fan was idiotic enough to assume that an umpire was "prejudiced" against their team because he made an error.

And, if you do believe the Bucknor is cheating to assist the Pakistani team or harm the Indian team, I'd be inclined to wonder why you think it's any different in this case than when umpiring errors go against any other side, apart from the fact that the team you support is on the wrong end of it.

When, for example, Nathan Hauritz was given out in a terrible decision in the dying moments of the 4th test in Mumbai last year, potentially costing Australia a win, was that about prejudice? How about the aforementioned decision suffered by Tatenda Taibu? How about Billy Bowden and Peter Parker? Are they prejudiced against New Zealand? Or is Billy prejudiced against India? How about Clive Lloyd and Michael Vaughan?

Crying about umpiring decisions is bad enough at the best of times, but accusing an umpire of cheating because they make a mistake is a significant step worse.

No one is crying about the decision here, but just trying to respond to some people who are trying to justify by bringing in Taibu's and now Hauritz's decision. If it is a one off decision then I have no problem, but if happens again and again by the same guy against the same guy, then it is a problem. I will assume one guy's prejudice against another. If Taibu/Hauritz are repeated in the wrong end by one particular umpire, then yes I would assume that they are being targeted.

Lastly if you have read the link, you would have noticed the following :-

"Ajit Agarkar had got Justin Langer lbw twice, with balls that pitched on leg, straightened and were hitting middle stump. Both were plumb, but both were given not out by Steve Bucknor. Later, Damien Martyn was plumb to Murali Kartik, and again Bucknor, who had made that shocking decision against Sachin Tendulkar at Brisbane, adjudged it not out. His decisions threatened to affect the outcome of a tense, even series. And it is surely unjust that the final result could be determined not by the excellence of the cricket, but the ineptness of the umpiring."

 

[ReallyCrazy]

he may well have given shockers..but I think its going to far to accuse an umpire of cheating..of course if there were any evidence of cheating then fair enough

No he doesn't cheat. He just is not good enough anymore. He has gotten old and incompetent.