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**Official** India v Pakistan

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
yes 2 years ago! in 3 games out of 10 in that series too. give yourself a medal sherlock, you still dont understand english.
Duh..Once again you are talking nonsense. Only those 3 games were DAY Games, rest of the games were D/N games. In India especially in Northern part if the game starts at 9 in the morning there is lot of juice for bowlers in the first hour. So much for understanding English.

Even in the D/N games, the pitch in the finals was hardly a flat track

yes i utter it, than i mention the word 'most', which again you completely ignore since you dont have the brain cells to comprehend what it means.
So much for Brain Cells. Let's see who you declare a better batsman than Tendulkar. I guess Richard Blakey is next in line.

because that turned out to be a seamer friendly wicket is it? with nearly 650 runs being scored too, and youhanna claiming that india should have got 340 on that wicket?
may the lord save you.
Hahahaha you still haven't learnt it, Have you ?
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Dileep Premchandran writing for Wisden.

While most would scoff at the official records that would have you believe that Naved-ul-Hasan is a sprightly 27-year-old, there's no doubting the enthusiasm that he brings to the bowling crease. He has the eagerness of a teenager, and the urge to succeed that can be found in those who have trekked back from the wilderness the hard way.

Shoaib Akhtar is a far more intimidating prospect, make no mistake, but he lacks even a smidgen of the commitment that has made Naved tower over every other bowler in this one-day series. But for the Ahmedabad game, where the Indians went after him in a big way, he has managed a stunning haul of 14 wickets on pitches designed specifically to break the hearts of his fast-bowling tribe.

And he hasn't done it with buffet bowling that induces the careless mistake, but with subtle changes in pace and canny use of swing and seam. The credit has to go to Bob Woolmer, who has stuck by Naved and given him the new ball in blatant violation of the machismo code that has held Pakistan cricket back for so many years. This unwritten tradition elevates pace to near-mythical status, while not being unduly bothered with niceties such as line, length and control of swing.

If some of Woolmer's critics – and they're more obtuse than most in a country where a leading correspondent once labelled the coach part of a Zionist conspiracy – had their way, some untested slinger like Mohammad Irshad, who has nothing to commend him but pace, would have been playing in place of an unfashionable worker ant like Naved. Glamour and image are, after all, more important than the winning of matches.

Not that Naved is any slouch in the pace department. When he gets the odd one to hasten off the pitch, he can touch 90mph and trouble the very best, as Sachin Tendulkar found out when going for a pull in the opening game at Kochi. The fact that a couple of Indians have bemoaned Shoaib's absence tells you all you need to know about how effective Naved has been in this series. Given his propensity to break down, and the inhuman conditions under which this series has been played, it's doubtful whether Shoaib would even have made it as far as Kanpur.



A couple of months ago, I had said something similar about pace and it being a kind of macho obsession with Pakistani fans and if I survived that day with my life it was because my friends on this forum did not know exactly where I lived :D

At least some one else thinks so too.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The Indian fan

An article I wrote yesterday. Reviews welcome.

The Indian fan

Scene 1 : India is on the verge of losing the world cup semi final to Sri Lanka in 1996 at the Eden Gardens, Kolkata. The crowd can not take it any more. They start creating havoc by throwing oranges and bottles on the field and the match is awarded to Sri Lanka.

Secne 2 : Mike Denness, the former England captain bans Sehwag for a test and puts in place a suspended test ban on Tendulkar and Ganguly amongst fines on other Indian cricketers. The multitude of Indian fans are aghast at their heroes being treated unjustly. The BCCI backs this concern of the Indian fan and the ICC and BCCI are at loggerheads against each other. The test match is eventually played with Sehwag and not recognized as an official one.

Scene 3 : The Eden Gardens, Kolkata is only half full for the mother of all battles, an Indo-Pak test match. Tendulkar is given out controversially and the Indian fan is shocked. But no shameful incidents take place in Kolkata this time.

Scene 4 : India draws the home test series to Pakisan in Mohali. The crowd cheers Pakistan and appreciates the fact that they have witnessed a good test match.

Scene 5 : Chris Broad bans Saurav Ganguly for 6 one dayers on the wake of consecutive matches where the over rate is extremely slow. There are mild repercussions in Kolkata. No extreme reactions across the country.

The question – has the Indian fan finally matured. Have they finally understood the fact that cricket is just a game and winning and losing are a part of it as shown in Mohali. Has the Indian fan finally come to terms with the fact that going to school and work is more important in their lives than an inning by Sachin Tendulkar as shown in Kolkata? Do they realize that Saurav Ganguly is human and can indeed make mistakes despite being a hero? It would be great if these conclusion could be made as it would have shown that there is a maturity level now among cricket fans in Indian which make they cricket fans more than cricket fanatics much more than ever before in the past.

Unfortunately, the truth is stranger than fiction. Picture this : Sachin Tendulkar’s century 5 years ago would make an entire nation happy. A bit more than a decade ago, Kapil Dev breaking Richard Hadlee’s world record meant pictures of Kapil were pasted in ever street corner in the country. A year ago, when Sehwag became the first Indian to score 300 runs, the Indians were happy, but they were not over zealous.

However, when India lost the world cup round robin match to Australia, there was outrage among Indian fans for the non performance of ‘star’ players. The reactions were similar when they lost in the final. When Sachin Tendulkar went through a lean period, he was called every thing from some one who is selfish and plays for himself rather than his team to not being a match winner. A decade ago, cricket was religion, Tendulkar was god and cricket was the mantra which would make every Indian fan happy. Kolkata, 1996 was the first time the Indian fan showed dissent at losing a match. However, apart from critcising Md. Azharuddin, the fans were mainly neutral to the performance of the cricketing gods. They didn’t complain against Tendulkar, they didn’t resort to questioning a lack of sincerity from Anil Kumble or Javagal Srinath.

Cricket remains as passionate in India today as it was 10 years ago. The reason for the passion has changed sadly. It is no longer a religion. It is a soap opera. This means that feats of god like characteristic are not expected from the players any more. They are expected to perform as they are earning so much of money just as film stars are expected to give hits in every movie. There is a show on ‘Star News’ which is called ‘match ke mujrim’ which means ‘criminals of the match’. The public is asked to vote as to which players they thought were most at fault for the loss the Indian cricket team had on the specific day. Saurav Ganguly can get around 80 percent of the votes for the 4th one dayer versus Pakistan and Sachin Tendulkar can be on the receiving end if he scores lowly on another day.

When the Indian fan applauded the Pakistan team in Mohali, they applauded not because Pakistan had played good cricket, but because they had put on a good ‘show’. It was like a good tragedy movie. The Indian fan was vindicated that their team isn’t good enough when a young team like Pakistan drew the series versus India at home. A part of the problem is that the vast majority of the fans consider many matches fixed. After the match fixing fiasco, every match is looked on with suspicion. Even the nail biting 4th one dayer versus Pakistan was looked on with suspicion. The fans doubt whether there is a sport going on or a live theatre. They don’t believe the people playing in front of them are heroes any more. The cricketers are looked upon with suspicion and shots of the players are discussed casting doubts on the genuinity.

When the Kolkata cricket fan thinks he will not go to watch the cricket match as its more important to go to school or work, he does not do it because he has become more intelligent to give less importance to his passion. The sad part is, cricket is not his passion any more. Accusing the players and making a movie out of a cricket match is. It certainly isn’t as important to miss a movie as it would have been to watch gods play. Cricket can wait another day. The personal attacks on the players can be made on another day when there is less work.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Pratyush said:
An article I wrote yesterday. Reviews welcome.

The Indian fan

Scene 1 : India is on the verge of losing the world cup semi final to Sri Lanka in 1996 at the Eden Gardens, Kolkata. The crowd can not take it any more. They start creating havoc by throwing oranges and bottles on the field and the match is awarded to Sri Lanka.

Secne 2 : Mike Denness, the former England captain bans Sehwag for a test and puts in place a suspended test ban on Tendulkar and Ganguly amongst fines on other Indian cricketers. The multitude of Indian fans are aghast at their heroes being treated unjustly. The BCCI backs this concern of the Indian fan and the ICC and BCCI are at loggerheads against each other. The test match is eventually played with Sehwag and not recognized as an official one.

Scene 3 : The Eden Gardens, Kolkata is only half full for the mother of all battles, an Indo-Pak test match. Tendulkar is given out controversially and the Indian fan is shocked. But no shameful incidents take place in Kolkata this time.

Scene 4 : India draws the home test series to Pakisan in Mohali. The crowd cheers Pakistan and appreciates the fact that they have witnessed a good test match.

Scene 5 : Chris Broad bans Saurav Ganguly for 6 one dayers on the wake of consecutive matches where the over rate is extremely slow. There are mild repercussions in Kolkata. No extreme reactions across the country.

The question – has the Indian fan finally matured. Have they finally understood the fact that cricket is just a game and winning and losing are a part of it as shown in Mohali. Has the Indian fan finally come to terms with the fact that going to school and work is more important in their lives than an inning by Sachin Tendulkar as shown in Kolkata? Do they realize that Saurav Ganguly is human and can indeed make mistakes despite being a hero? It would be great if these conclusion could be made as it would have shown that there is a maturity level now among cricket fans in Indian which make they cricket fans more than cricket fanatics much more than ever before in the past.

Unfortunately, the truth is stranger than fiction. Picture this : Sachin Tendulkar’s century 5 years ago would make an entire nation happy. A bit more than a decade ago, Kapil Dev breaking Richard Hadlee’s world record meant pictures of Kapil were pasted in ever street corner in the country. A year ago, when Sehwag became the first Indian to score 300 runs, the Indians were happy, but they were not over zealous.

However, when India lost the world cup round robin match to Australia, there was outrage among Indian fans for the non performance of ‘star’ players. The reactions were similar when they lost in the final. When Sachin Tendulkar went through a lean period, he was called every thing from some one who is selfish and plays for himself rather than his team to not being a match winner. A decade ago, cricket was religion, Tendulkar was god and cricket was the mantra which would make every Indian fan happy. Kolkata, 1996 was the first time the Indian fan showed dissent at losing a match. However, apart from critcising Md. Azharuddin, the fans were mainly neutral to the performance of the cricketing gods. They didn’t complain against Tendulkar, they didn’t resort to questioning a lack of sincerity from Anil Kumble or Javagal Srinath.

Cricket remains as passionate in India today as it was 10 years ago. The reason for the passion has changed sadly. It is no longer a religion. It is a soap opera. This means that feats of god like characteristic are not expected from the players any more. They are expected to perform as they are earning so much of money just as film stars are expected to give hits in every movie. There is a show on ‘Star News’ which is called ‘match ke mujrim’ which means ‘criminals of the match’. The public is asked to vote as to which players they thought were most at fault for the loss the Indian cricket team had on the specific day. Saurav Ganguly can get around 80 percent of the votes for the 4th one dayer versus Pakistan and Sachin Tendulkar can be on the receiving end if he scores lowly on another day.

When the Indian fan applauded the Pakistan team in Mohali, they applauded not because Pakistan had played good cricket, but because they had put on a good ‘show’. It was like a good tragedy movie. The Indian fan was vindicated that their team isn’t good enough when a young team like Pakistan drew the series versus India at home. A part of the problem is that the vast majority of the fans consider many matches fixed. After the match fixing fiasco, every match is looked on with suspicion. Even the nail biting 4th one dayer versus Pakistan was looked on with suspicion. The fans doubt whether there is a sport going on or a live theatre. They don’t believe the people playing in front of them are heroes any more. The cricketers are looked upon with suspicion and shots of the players are discussed casting doubts on the genuinity.

When the Kolkata cricket fan thinks he will not go to watch the cricket match as its more important to go to school or work, he does not do it because he has become more intelligent to give less importance to his passion. The sad part is, cricket is not his passion any more. Accusing the players and making a movie out of a cricket match is. It certainly isn’t as important to miss a movie as it would have been to watch gods play. Cricket can wait another day. The personal attacks on the players can be made on another day when there is less work.
Superb !!
 

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha typical Afridi.

On going after Anil Kumble and Harbhajan Singh:
I didn't have a choice.

:p
 

Gotchya

State Vice-Captain
At the presentation:

Afridi: "I'd say that coaches should not talk to me a lot"

Ravi: "What did the coach say to you today?"
Afridi: "Ah...just play your natural game?..."
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Sanz said:
Duh..Once again you are talking nonsense. Only those 3 games were DAY Games, rest of the games were D/N games. In India especially in Northern part if the game starts at 9 in the morning there is lot of juice for bowlers in the first hour. So much for understanding English.
your point being? now we should only look at day games is it?
and again, i was referring to test match cricket, not ODIs. ive never actually claimed tendulkar was anything other than an ODI great.

Sanz said:
Even in the D/N games, the pitch in the finals was hardly a flat track
yes it was a slow turner.....good luck with those english lessons.



Sanz said:
So much for Brain Cells. Let's see who you declare a better batsman than Tendulkar. I guess Richard Blakey is next in line.
in tests there are too many to count. in ODIs just richards and bevan.



Sanz said:
Hahahaha you still haven't learnt it, Have you ?
learnt what? how to be a fool?
no thx, id rather stay away from that.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
your point being? now we should only look at day games is it?
and again, i was referring to test match cricket, not ODIs. ive never actually claimed tendulkar was anything other than an ODI great.
The point is that you dismissed my last post saying that out of 12 only 3 were seamer friendly , whereas the fact is except in 2-3 games most of the pitches were quite sporting. And 12-3=9 . Now 3 out of 12 is certainly not 'MOST'.

Good to see you swtich to TEST Cricket now. Even that is a bogus claim.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
learnt what? how to be a fool?
How not to be biased. You have all the proof infront of you but you choose to look away and you will never learn that way. Keep dreaming that Tendulkar is the most over rated player ever, and he will keep scoring runs.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Sanz said:
The point is that you dismissed my last post saying that out of 12 only 3 were seamer friendly , whereas the fact is except in 2-3 games most of the pitches were quite sporting. And 12-3=9 . Now 3 out of 12 is certainly not 'MOST'. .
what? you yourself said that there were only 2-3 wickets that were seamer friendly....all of a sudden there were 9 is it? in a series that only had 10 games too. and if you remember correctly the only complaints made my fleming was that his side was getting all the seamer friendly wickets against australia only, and basically the conditions were seaming around only in the first inning. get the facts straight. 2-3 seamer friendly wickets, and the rest were flat/slow turners


Sanz said:
Good to see you swtich to TEST Cricket now. Even that is a bogus claim.
no, i was always referring to test cricket, except for people who cant read.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Sanz said:
How not to be biased. You have all the proof infront of you but you choose to look away and you will never learn that way. Keep dreaming that Tendulkar is the most over rated player ever, and he will keep scoring runs.
because his scoring runs on flat wickets will prove me wrong is it?
and as far as me being biased is concerned, does it not strike you that most people dont even agree with you on that? even people who dont see eye to eye with me have admitted that if anything im not biased. so you can go ahead and call anyone biased, when the fact is your the only one who is biased.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Some comments by fans are absolutely pathetic. They blame Dravid's captaincy fairly and squarely for this defeat, and say that the last two were not too bad, and think of different excuses to make him look bad as captain. What next? They've supported one captain who's failed for five years, and are ready to pounce on the new man when he's not regular as captain and just has one defeat in a long time!
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
what? you yourself said that there were only 2-3 wickets that were seamer friendly....
It was actually you who said that. I had merely pointed out the TVS cup because I guess that was the last ODI series India played at home (so much for playing at home and Flat tracks, Sachin has played less than 1/3rd of his ODI matches at home).

all of a sudden there were 9 is it? in a series that only had 10 games too. and if you remember correctly the only complaints made my fleming was that his side was getting all the seamer friendly wickets against australia only, and basically the conditions were seaming around only in the first inning. get the facts straight. 2-3 seamer friendly wickets, and the rest were flat/slow turners
I said they were sporting wickets. So much for your ability to read english. Seamer friendly, spinner friendly, bounce friendly..as long as a pitch assists bowlers in some way I would call it sporting. Perhaps you need to define the meaning of FLAT wickets.


no, i was always referring to test cricket, except for people who cant read.
Yeah Mumbai (ind Vs. australia) wicket was a flat track. Can you please list all the test venues in india and tell us which are Flat tracks and which are not. Let's see how much you know about Indian Pitches.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Sanz said:
It was actually you who said that. I had merely pointed out the TVS cup because I guess that was the last ODI series India played at home (so much for playing at home and Flat tracks, Sachin has played less than 1/3rd of his ODI matches at home).
see the problem for you is that most ODIs are on flat tracks all around the world. which is why i rate tendulkar extremely highly in ODI cricket, because i know he is very capable on flat tracks


Sanz said:
I said they were sporting wickets. So much for your ability to read english. Seamer friendly, spinner friendly, bounce friendly..as long as a pitch assists bowlers in some way I would call it sporting. Perhaps you need to define the meaning of FLAT wickets.
and if you could read english, i said most tracks in india are either flat tracks or slow turners. well done sherlock.




Sanz said:
Yeah Mumbai (ind Vs. australia) wicket was a flat track. Can you please list all the test venues in india and tell us which are Flat tracks and which are not. Let's see how much you know about Indian Pitches.
this is a typical comment of someone with no knowledge of cricket. most people know that a wicket varies, very few wickets are either flat or seamer friendly or seamer friendly all the time. so you cant stereotype a wicket to be something.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
because his scoring runs on flat wickets will prove me wrong is it?
and as far as me being biased is concerned, does it not strike you that most people dont even agree with you on that? even people who dont see eye to eye with me have admitted that if anything im not biased. so you can go ahead and call anyone biased, when the fact is your the only one who is biased.
I couldn't care if anyone agrees with me or not. I dont need their support to know the way you have been badmouthing subcontinent in your posts. And it is a fact that some members on this forum have that tendency. For them every performance by a subcontinent player has to be perfect otherwise it would be worthless.

Pathan is hyped but Clarks, Hicks, solankis, Ramprakash', Harmisons of your world deserve their hype. Tendulkar is an FTB because he scored (which is BS anyway) most of his runs in subcontinent but you will not get tired of praising hick's inning in subcontinent and what a great inning it was. Ganguyl is sh!t because he fails, but Vaughan is great even if he sucks as a player.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Sanz said:
I couldn't care if anyone agrees with me or not. I dont need their support to know the way you have been badmouthing subcontinent in your posts. And it is a fact that some members on this forum have that tendency. For them every performance by a subcontinent player has to be perfect otherwise it would be worthless.

Pathan is hyped but Clarks, Hicks, solankis, Ramprakash', Harmisons of your world deserve their hype. Tendulkar is an FTB because he scored (which is BS anyway) most of his runs in subcontinent but you will not get tired of praising hick's inning in subcontinent and what a great inning it was. Ganguyl is sh!t because he fails, but Vaughan is great even if he sucks as a player.
i think this post is a classical example of your inability to read. you can make up all the b/s you want, because about half of that post is utter crap.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
see the problem for you is that most ODIs are on flat tracks all around the world. which is why i rate tendulkar extremely highly in ODI cricket, because i know he is very capable on flat tracks
Oh so all at a sudden most ODI tracks in the world became flat tracks. I wonder what is stopping others from scoring runs on Flat tracks. If one can score on a fast track, seam track, spin track, he should be able to score on a flat track as well, NO ??

and if you could read english, i said most tracks in india are either flat tracks or slow turners. well done sherlock.
In a series where 10 games were played only 2 were high scoring and rest were pretty sporting. You need to define the 'FLAT' before you talk crap about subcontinent pitches.

this is a typical comment of someone with no knowledge of cricket. most people know that a wicket varies, very few wickets are either flat or seamer friendly or seamer friendly all the time. so you cant stereotype a wicket to be something.
Okay Genius why dont you list out the test matches played in India in last 5 years and tell us how many of those were FLAT tracks. Anyways you are wrong about the pitches, there are some traditional characteristics of pitches all over the world where you know the type Sydney, Perth, Banglore, Mohali etc.
 

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