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**Official** India v Pakistan

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
imranrabb said:
More steel, less flash

The Wisden Verdict by S Rajesh

April 12, 2005

The last time a one-day match was played at Motera, West Indies were exactly in the situation that India found themselves in today. They amassed what looked like a matchwinning score of 325, with one of their openers, Chris Gayle, smashing 140. Then, they watched helplessly as India chased down that target in a canter, with 14 balls to spare. Pakistan didn't quite win so easily, but in Inzamam-ul-Haq they had just the man for the occasion. It was a fabulous knock under pressure, and it ensured that the team which deserved to win did so, even if they contrived to make it much tougher than it should have been.

After the game at Jamshedpur, the first word which came to mind when describing Pakistan's batting effort was clinical. For the second time in consecutive matches, that adjective was an apt description of their performance with the willow for much of their innings today, though that discipline wasn't quite there when they bowled. Since Bob Woolmer has come on board, there has been a significant emphasis on strenghtening the basics – the fielding, the running between the wickets, the fitness. There have been lapses, but overall, this Pakistan outfit is much more solid, and far less flashy, than their predecessors.

On another swelteringly hot day, it would have been easy for Pakistan to avoid the singles and twos, and concentrate on the boundaries, especially after having spent three-and-a-half hours in the field. Instead, they ran as if that was the only way of scoring runs. Sample these stats – Shoaib Malik made a run-a-ball 65, and only 12 of those runs came in boundaries. And how many dot balls did he play? Only 16. Between overs 14 and 34, Pakistan scored 120 runs – that's exactly six an over, yet there were only four fours during that period. It was so efficient and without fuss, it was almost boring to watch. This approach might result in fewer spectacular fireworks from a side famous for it, but it will also fetch them more success.

For the Indians, though, this will be a tough loss to recover from. Sourav Ganguly made one early change from the script used in that game against West Indies in 2002 – he had chosen to field after winning the toss in that game – but no-one can blame Ganguly for his decision today: the team batting first has been winning in this series, and despite the excess moisture on the pitch which caused an hour's delay, the track looked a belter when play finally began. What Ganguly will find much tougher to justify is his promotion to No. 4 in the batting line-up after the outstanding start that the top three had given the team.

Ganguly might have opted for the move to prove a point about his batting, but all he managed was eat up 33 balls in scoring 18 runs in a match in which all batsmen scored at around a run a ball or more. With the innings already 32 overs old when Mahendra Singh Dhoni got out, logic would have suggested that Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh and Mohammad Kaif be the chosen ones to play the next 16 overs, with Ganguly coming in only if absolutely required to. Ganguly's stay at the crease not only checked the momentum, it also meant Sachin Tendulkar was struggling for strike – he faced only 21 balls when Ganguly was at the crease.

It's important that Ganguly run into form in the long term, but what was more critical at that point was to do what would have given the team the best opportunity to win the match. Ganguly coming in at No. 4 certainly wasn't the answer.




The final result also put in the shade an outstanding batting effort by Tendulkar. Plenty has been written about his form, but unlike Ganguly, who seldom even looks like buying a run, Tendulkar has been middling the ball well, was consistent in the Tests, and had only failed a couple of times – a big score was round the corner, and it was hardly surprising that Pakistan felt the heat today.

From the first ball, which he clipped magnificently to square leg for four, Tendulkar's fluency was there for all to see – the feet were always in position, he hardly played and missed, and he never missed out on a loose ball. What stood out, though, was the manner in which he dismantled Danish Kaneria, negating his leg-stump line with a meaty reverse-sweep, and twinkle-toed footwork which allowed him to get inside the line and smash straight hits. Unlike many of his recent innings, he didn't hold back after reaching his fifty – his second half-century came in just 43 balls, and was probably indicative of the fact that he had read the pitch as one on which no total would be safe. He was proved right.

A final word about the crowd. It was an outstanding match, but most of the Pakistani moments – including the winning hit – were greeted with absolute silence, or at best stray claps. What grated the most was the loud chants of "Ganguly hai hai" when the teams were walking back after the match, at a time when Inzamam should have got a standing ovation for guiding his team as expertly as he did; instead, all he got was calls of "Aloo, aloo". The result might not be to the crowd's liking, but it sets up the series magnificently for the two final games at Kanpur and Delhi.

S Rajesh is assistant editor of Cricinfo.

What a disgrace the indian crowd is.The past games every four or six pakistan has hit,you can hear a pin dropping.Now this after inzamam plays a wonderful knock they boo him.
It was the Ahmedabad crowd. You are wrong in generalizing it as the INDIAN crowd. Remember Mohali, Chennai and even Bangalore (to an extent) are very sporting. Mumbai are pretty sporting too. It is a shame that you have to play in these low profile centres, where the team is appreciated more than the game.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I think since the 2003 World Cup it has been obvious that India have a very very average new ball attack. Zaheer is only now getting back some of the pace he had in the WC and Nehra has lost lots of his pace.... Srinath is gone now and neither Balaji or Pathan have shown that they have any decent pace. Movement is fine in tests but in ODIs, with the pitches being flat, you need a bit of pace (although it is NOT the only thing you need) to beat the batsmen and that is where India have lost out.... I think, ideally, India should try out Agarkar regularly in ODIs along with Zaheer and pick the third seamer from amongst guys like Balaji, Pathan and Nehra... India have been one dimensional for far too long now..... The seamers depend too heavily on swing and don't have any other trick up their sleeve.. Their slower deliveries generally go awry (turn out to be wides or beamers or just full tosses..) and their bouncers and yorkers never have enough pace to beat or force batsmen into their shots... And India are the only side against whom Afridi is consistent... Enough said, I think. Against most other sides, he comes off only in 1 or 2 games out of 5. Against India, you would back him to come off 3 or 4 out of 5 times.



It is not just Afridi either. India cannot keep a blaster opener quiet. Jayasuriya, Gayle, Afridi.. The reasons are obvious. Because the Indian new ball bowlers are one dimensional, these guys can line them up easily. And Sourav's captaincy was rather horrible this match. And pray someone tell me what India were doing with 4 guys in the deep with 1 run to win off 3 balls. Luckily, Sachin bowled two dot balls and Rahul was fuming as he came in and told Sachin about how stupid it was. And I think Sachin actually asked the umpire if he is allowed to have all men inside the ring at that time (He asked the umpire something, but as soon as he finished talking to the umpire, he called in his fielders, so I think this is a fair assumption). I cannot believe guys with the experience of Sachin and Sourav actually let this happen. Maybe it was the pressure......


And again one man carried India's innings. It is sad to see such a glorious effort from Sachin go in vain. And if only all the eleven players of India had the same commitment as Sachin...... He is by no means the best fielder in India, but just watch him chase balls and throw them in. BTW, has anyone else noticed how downhill Kaif's fielding has gone. His throws are never on target as they used to be and he is missing a lot of balls while he is diving (which he never used to do so regularly as now) I think India have to get their act together BIG TIME in ODIs if they want any realistic chance in the 2007 WC. At the moment, I think their ranking is 8 and India have to start realizing they are no.8 because they deserve to be..... Unfortunately, I don't think they have realized that yet.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
SJS said:
It is amazing that he bowled Sehwag for only 1 over and took him off though he gave away only 4 runs.

His use of Sehwag's bowling in the entire series has been pathetic.

Ganguly's mistakes as captain are galore. His coming in after Dhoni got out cost India minimum 20 runs.

He doesnt deserve a place as a captain, does he ?
Come on SJS, you of all people should have picked that up.

Sehwag was brought on in the 15th over while Salman Butt was still at the crease so that he could have the ball turning away from him. But then Karthik sent Butt back to the pavillion the very next over. Butt being the only left hander in the Pakistani team, Sehwag was no longer required. Instead given how the next batsman in, Razzaq, finds the away turning deliveries hard to play, the left arm spinner, Yuvraj was brought into the attack.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
honestbharani said:
I think since the 2003 World Cup it has been obvious that India have a very very average new ball attack.
To be fair, I think it's been since a fair bit before that.
 

maxpower

U19 Cricketer
marc71178 said:
To be fair, I think it's been since a fair bit before that.
maybe but in WC IND bowlers did quite well, how often does 3 IND bowlers make into top 10 wickets takers in a tourney.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Deja moo said:
Come on SJS, you of all people should have picked that up.

Sehwag was brought on in the 15th over while Salman Butt was still at the crease so that he could have the ball turning away from him. But then Karthik sent Butt back to the pavillion the very next over. Butt being the only left hander in the Pakistani team, Sehwag was no longer required. Instead given how the next batsman in, Razzaq, finds the away turning deliveries hard to play, the left arm spinner, Yuvraj was brought into the attack.
Oh I am aware of that but I dont buy this stuff about Sehwag's utitlity being only against left handed batsmen.

I think Ganguly got himself into a hole due to Tendulkar's success in the earlier one dayer at Kochi where he bowled round the wicket outside the legstump, a negative line which Pakistani batsmen in frustration tried to hammer and lost wickets.

He just thought this was a great way to get the Pakistani's bottled up and finally frustrated enough to throw away their wickets. He kept using Tendulkar in the same negative manner and even got Yuvraj and later Karthik to bowl their left hand over the wicket stuff for similar effect. This tactic, clearly, cant be used with an off spinner since the batsmen do not need to hit against the spin, hence no Sehwag.

Unfortunately for Ganguly, Pakistanis came with a plan not to go for wild shots but play for singles and twos which were there for the asking. I am shocked that Ganguly did not see that his plan was not working and kept up with a spread out field hoping they would slog and hit to the fielders spread out.

His not using Sehwag had to do with this negative tactic which did not need Sehwag !
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Feedback on Nehra's stump-hungry throws and Kumble's ODI recall? Nehra's often been panned for his lethargic fielding, but he was very aggressive this time, as he threw one right on top of the stumps, which Zaheer converted into a run-out, while the next one smashed the stumps to create yet another run-out. It's fresh relief and makes his selection more effective, with his already impressive bowling so far. Kumble's been in horrific form last year, but he's still a lot more seasoned than the rest, so they may need him more than ever now.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
Arjun said:
Feedback on Nehra's stump-hungry throws and Kumble's ODI recall? Nehra's often been panned for his lethargic fielding, but he was very aggressive this time, as he threw one right on top of the stumps, which Zaheer converted into a run-out, while the next one smashed the stumps to create yet another run-out. It's fresh relief and makes his selection more effective, with his already impressive bowling so far. Kumble's been in horrific form last year, but he's still a lot more seasoned than the rest, so they may need him more than ever now.
I thought Nehra`s fielding was terrific, well done Ashish! And Kumble`s selection is a must for mine, try to get some leadership in.
 

PAKMAN

State 12th Man
Sehwag309 said:
Actually, I switched few bets..I would have made a lot, but the 315 score made me change my mind

If I wasn't watching, and didnt know the proceedings, then it would have been a different story. Feeling is Pak will win 5th ODI, they will bat 1st, India won't be able to chase it down

Delhi ODI, dunno yet
aap k munh me cheese burger :D
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Nnanden said:
I thought Nehra`s fielding was terrific, well done Ashish! And Kumble`s selection is a must for mine, try to get some leadership in.
Leadership? As in captaincy? His fielding is a letdown, but his experience may come useful at this stage. As for Nehra, if he's so effective consistently, he can be a good long-term ODI pick.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Arjun said:
Leadership? As in captaincy? His fielding is a letdown, but his experience may come useful at this stage. As for Nehra, if he's so effective consistently, he can be a good long-term ODI pick.
He is anyday a better fielder than Nehra. And Ganguly has played 250 matches with his fielding. Lets not use different parameters for different players.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
Arjun said:
Leadership? As in captaincy? His fielding is a letdown, but his experience may come useful at this stage.
Experience, leadership... all that jazz. :)
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
He is anyday a better fielder than Nehra.
Maybe, but in some matches, particularly against Pakistan, Nehra has fielded a lot better than he usually does, and his stump-hungry heroics are a major improvement. Kumble's never been effective, at least not these days.
And Ganguly has played 250 matches with his fielding
Reason enough not to have him in a tournament-winning ODI side.
Lets not use different parameters for different players.
Frankly, everyone in an ODI side has to be effective on the field. Not everyone should be a Jonty Rhodes, but they have to try hard and give nothing away.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Arjun said:
Maybe, but in some matches, particularly against Pakistan, Nehra has fielded a lot better than he usually does, and his stump-hungry heroics are a major improvement. Kumble's never been effective, at least not these days.Reason enough not to have him in a tournament-winning ODI side.Frankly, everyone in an ODI side has to be effective on the field. Not everyone should be a Jonty Rhodes, but they have to try hard and give nothing away.
Heard of a player called Glen MacGrath ??

I can name at least twenty great ODI players who were ordinary fielders.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
nightprowler10 said:
The way Pakistani crowd cheered for India last year was amazing, but the way Indian crowd stayed quiet when Pakistan was winning, well that's just normal.
Nonsense.
 

Mecnun

U19 Debutant
Crowds in Kochi and mohalli were good. This one was a bit quiet but so what!! They just saw Pakistan chase a difficult target and could'nt believe it ;)

I cannot believe Sourav has been banned for 6 ODi's no matter how you look at it that is harsh. I hope BCCI appeal strenously and PCB join them in teh appeal to suspend his punsihment till Pak have played the last 2 ODI's. ;)
 

deeps

International 12th Man
SJS said:
Heard of a player called Glen MacGrath ??

I can name at least twenty great ODI players who were ordinary fielders.
Mcgrath is far from the worst fielder in the world. Has a great pair of hands and does pretty damn well for a tall fast bowler.

anyway, fielding is very important, and if your fielding is not up to scratch, it really counts against you. It does not necesserialy mean you will be dropped.

If you go out and make 50+ scores all the time, or take 3-4 wickets per match, the selectors will ignore a few misfields. However when you lose form, the fielding really counts against you.

The pressure is very high on bad fielders, because their batting or bowling has to be that much better than the next person.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
deeps said:
Mcgrath is far from the worst fielder in the world. Has a great pair of hands and does pretty damn well for a tall fast bowler.

anyway, fielding is very important, and if your fielding is not up to scratch, it really counts against you. It does not necesserialy mean you will be dropped.

If you go out and make 50+ scores all the time, or take 3-4 wickets per match, the selectors will ignore a few misfields. However when you lose form, the fielding really counts against you.

The pressure is very high on bad fielders, because their batting or bowling has to be that much better than the next person.
Come on Deeps.

I dont need to be told fielding is important. As is the practice on this forum some people intentionally/or otherwise miss the woods for the trees.

The point I am making, since it needs to be emphasised, is that some players, batsmen or bowlers, can be so useful to their teams in their specialised discipline that even if they are just average fielders, they are played. I mentioned MacGrath in that context.

As far as MacGrath being safe is concerned, only an idiot will say Kumble is not a safe fielder too. He is not a great fielder but he is not the worst fielder in the world too.

He has played 259 matches for India more than any other pure bowler that I can think of.. Surely his fielding has not been so terrible as to have made him not suitable for Indian team.

If Kumble was not taken in the Indian team for this series it is because he was not having a great time in ODI's as a bowler and not because he was a bad fielder.

This is the only point to be made.

Of the top six players to play for India in ODI's (by number of matches), three are ordinary fielders and of these three Kumble is perhaps the better fielder.

Tendulkar (346)
Azhar (334)
Ganguly(270)
Kumble (259)

Dravid(249)
Srinath(229)

Even from the others only Azhar is a brilliant fielder and Sachin a very good one. Dravid in the outfield is just about average.

So why are these peopl like Ganguly and Srinath playing so much one day cricket ?

By the way another two spots down the line is Prasad.

When there is a small difference between two players utility to the team, its only then that a better fielder is chosen not when there is a big difference in their main functional area.

Harbhajan was prefered to Kumble because Ganguly felt he would be a better bowler than Kumble in ODI's it was not because of the difference in their fielding capabilities.

I hope the point is clear :D
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
nightprowler10 said:
The way Pakistani crowd cheered for India last year was amazing, but the way Indian crowd stayed quiet when Pakistan was winning, well that's just normal.
Utter Rubbish !!
 

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