**Official** India v Pakistan

[wahindiawah]

True, but what if your specialist wicket-keeper is neither good behind the stumps nor as a batsman?

I haven't seen much of Kamran Akmal's batting, but the way he opens up the inning, it seems like he's a fielding coach giving catch practice to his fielders( last ODI).

And with wicket-keeping, he can be very good behind the stumps, but he can be as bad the very next ball. I think it was the VB series where he let a lot of balls go past him, and dropped a catch yesterday.

I've seen Younis Khan wicket-kept, and he wasn't any bad to suggest a specialist wicket-keeper was needed.

No, specialist keepers are ALWAYS needed, Malik and Younis can keep wkts for some time but they aren't the solution.

If Akmal fails with bat as opener then its the team management that is responsible for it coz they have Hafeez and Afridi in the team, who happen to be specialist openers, yet they for some strange reason keep asking Akmal to open the innings .

 

[deeps]

Here are the figures again .

yup i've seen you post that before, though the cricinfo site does not agree with those stats?


are your sources correct, or have i made a mistake?

 

[SJS]

and of course, if we're talking combined averages, ie, test+odi's yes, his record is impressive


though he has been dropped from the one day team,and not the test team. His one day form isn't that good.

The figures I have given are for the calender year 2004. These are CORRECT figures.

Cricket info has a problem in the filter. It shows "seasons" meaning 2003-04, 2004 and 2004-2005 are all listed separately. Thus what appears as 2004 is really only SUMMER 2004. So it misleas as if these were a year's figures while they are mostly 2-3 months ONLY !!!

 

[wahindiawah]

Because one goes over the prescribed 15 degree tolerance limit while the other doesnt. Theres no discrimination.

BTW, the level was set at 15 degree coz Murali bends his arm around that, had he bended his arm to around 30 degree, the ICC would have set the level to 30 degree!

 

[deeps]

The figures I have given are for the calender year 2004. These are CORRECT figures.

Cricket info has a problem in the filter. It shows "seasons" meaning 2003-04, 2004 and 2004-2005 are all listed separately. Thus what appears as 2004 is really only SUMMER 2004. So it misleas as if these were a year's figures while they are mostly 2-3 months ONLY !!!

ah ok, now i see it, but that still means, that in his last 11 matches he hasn't been in the best of form. and with players like yuvy and kaif just knocking on the door.......

harsh, but maybe the indian selectors were usin the cricinfo site :P

 

[deeps]

BTW, the level was set at 15 degree coz Murali bends his arm around that, had he bended his arm to around 30 degree, the ICC would have set the level to 30 degree!

actually, the limit was set because that is when the naked eye could detect a 'kink' in the elbow.

HOWEVER, let me ask you this


from just general observation of bowlers actions, it seems blatantly clear to me that Murali has a much bigger 'kink' in his elbow as compared to shoaib malik.


I believe everything else that the ICC have said, but i simply dont' believe that the bend on murali's arm is less than 15 degrees.

 

[SJS]

ah ok, now i see it, but that still means, that in his last 11 matches he hasn't been in the best of form. and with players like yuvy and kaif just knocking on the door.......

harsh, but maybe the indian selectors were usin the cricinfo site :P

There is NO WAY you can say Kaif and Yuvraj performed better than him in 2004 ODI's unless you pick up a very short period. Remember he did NOT go to Bangladesh.

 

[deeps]

i'm not saying they performed better. They are both class players, and at the hint of a loss of form, they were pushed into the side. if yuvy and kaif were in poor form, i doubt laxman wld have been dropped

 

[Unattainableguy]

The figures I have given are for the calender year 2004. These are CORRECT figures.

Cricket info has a problem in the filter. It shows "seasons" meaning 2003-04, 2004 and 2004-2005 are all listed separately. Thus what appears as 2004 is really only SUMMER 2004. So it misleas as if these were a year's figures while they are mostly 2-3 months ONLY !!!

You can also select the advanced filter, and then type in the start date and end date.

 

[wahindiawah]

actually, the limit was set because that is when the naked eye could detect a 'kink' in the elbow.

HOWEVER, let me ask you this


from just general observation of bowlers actions, it seems blatantly clear to me that Murali has a much bigger 'kink' in his elbow as compared to shoaib malik.

.

I can't deny that. I'm not a biomechanic expert so i can't say that exact situation, but Murali always looked to me the one with the most bent arm.

 

[deeps]

i know pictures can be deceptive, but some of them are pretty clear...look at these and tell me it's less than 15 degrees?

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/032995

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/037818

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/009069


if what they say is true, about 15 degrees being the limit for the naked eye to see

then why do my eyes show a huge kink?

 

[SJS]

You can also select the advanced filter, and then type in the start date and end date.

Yes you are right.

But if you do that and look for figures from 1st Jan 2204 to 31st Dec 2004, you will get the figures I posted

 

[Swervy]

i know pictures can be deceptive, but some of them are pretty clear...look at these and tell me it's less than 15 degrees?

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/032995

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/037818

http://www.cricinfo.com/perl/picture.cgi/009069


if what they say is true, about 15 degrees being the limit for the naked eye to see

then why do my eyes show a huge kink?

its not the angle the arm is at, its the degree of straightening that is the issue..if he keeps his arm at that angle throughout the rotation, then its ok

 

[wahindiawah]

if what they say is true, about 15 degrees being the limit for the naked eye to see

then why do my eyes show a huge kink?

No idea really, it just amazes me.

 

[deeps]

its not the angle the arm is at, its the degree of straightening that is the issue..if he keeps his arm at that angle throughout the rotation, then its ok

oops, ur rite :$

but the fact remains i can still "see" the chuck alot clearer than i can for malik

anyway , this is way OT

 

[vandemataram]

I believe Muralitharan knows more about hypo extension, dodgy action etc than anyone else.After retirement it would be nice if Murali gets a place in ICC panel of chucking experts.

 

[SJS]

For those who have convinced themselves that the dropping of Laxman was more than justified for ODI's. I have divided the 2004 season into three parts. Jan to April. May to August and Sept to Dec(minus Bangladesh)

here are the results of averages for Laxman, Kaif, Yuvraj and Sehwag.

I have put Sehwag just to show how a batsman out of form (apparently) has come back to be everyones NEW God

 

[SJS]

PLUS a reminder to those who say Laxman was out of form and hence not taken to Bangladesh. Let me inform that his last ODI innings for India was a 44 ball 43 at number 3 against Pakistan at Calcutta on 13th November 2004.

 

[SJS]

One final word.

In the last period taken here. All four of them played six innings getting the following number of runs.

Kaif : 193 (2 times not out)
Laxman : 196
Yuvraj : 124
Sehwag : 85

 

[deeps]

One final word.

In the last period taken here. All four of them played six innings getting the following number of runs.

Kaif : 193 (2 times not out)
Laxman : 196
Yuvraj : 124
Sehwag : 85

i think more than likely the indian selectors wanted to send a wake up call to the senior batsman. Can't drop sehwag tendulkar or dravid, ganguls is captain...which left laxman............ scapegoat


hard done by, but i think he'll get his spot back soon enough.