***Official*** India in West Indies

[Sanz]

Michael Holding on the issue :-

"Brian Lara must count himself lucky. He might have had his reasons to get agitated but you can't show disrespect to the umpires in the middle. In fact, I was surprised that the drama involving Mahendra Singh Dhoni's 'catch' was allowed to linger for a good 15 minutes although somebody like Simon Taufel was on the field. Usually this man is spot on with his decisions. Once the TV umpire is unable to make a decision because the pictures are inconclusive, it should be the job of field umpires to make a call. So, I was surprised that the matter lingered for that long. In the days of match referees, usually such behaviour does not go unpunished. In good old days, a lot of us could get away with a lot of things but these days the match supervisors are intolerant to insolent behaviour."

I am sure good old Marcus will as usual continue to declare Lara as not guilty and unbiased Liam wll continue to justify whatever he has been saying.

 

[adharcric]

Dont say a word Adharcric, Liam is so objective that he can see Lara doing nothing wrong. All the WI newspapers reports are wrong. Lara was so polite to Rauf, Lara requested Rauf that if he could take the ball and get on with the game, how could you miss that.

Forgive me for being so outspoken.

 

[marc71178]

1) The article says Sehwag breached section1.5 of the ICC code, specifically relating to his celebrating before the ump gave his decision.

Interestingly - the official ICC statement says:

"India's Virender Sehwag has been fined 20 per cent of his match fee for breaching the ICC Code of Conduct during his country's first Test match against the West Indies.

Sehwag pleaded guilty to excessive appealing to ICC Match Referee Jeff Crowe in a hearing after play concluded in Antigua on Tuesday."

Link: http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc-media/content/story/249867.html

2) Then it is the ump's mistake. Lara's act was pretty clearly a case of dissent and a somthing contravening the spirit of the game.

How do you know more about what went on out there then they do then?

How can you say they've made the mistake in not reporting him, or in giving information to the match referee that lead to no sanction?

3) Okay, so Lara should also have been fined 20%, given the match situation. I do not see why he should not be fined at all.

Because in the eyes of the umpires he didn't actually do anything wrong?

 

[Sanz]

Because in the eyes of the umpires he didn't actually do anything wrong?

Oh yeah, He was the saint on the ground. We all saw how respectful he was.

 

[viktor]

Interestingly - the official ICC statement says:

"India's Virender Sehwag has been fined 20 per cent of his match fee for breaching the ICC Code of Conduct during his country's first Test match against the West Indies.

Sehwag pleaded guilty to excessive appealing to ICC Match Referee Jeff Crowe in a hearing after play concluded in Antigua on Tuesday."

Link: http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc-media/content/story/249867.html




How do you know more about what went on out there then they do then?

How can you say they've made the mistake in not reporting him, or in giving information to the match referee that lead to no sanction?




Because in the eyes of the umpires he didn't actually do anything wrong?

I quote from the link you provided.
****
Sehwag was found to have breached 1.5 of the ICC Code which relates to "the practice of celebrating a dismissal before the decision has been given".
****
Also, let me reiterate: my objection is not to Sehwag being fined. The rule dumb as it is, exists and Sehwag was in vioation of it. I do not object to Jaywardene being fined. Again, stupid rule, mind you, but again, he was in vioalation. My issue is with the fact Lara in my opinion and in the opinion of a number of watchers behaved in a manner patently unfit that of a captain of an international side. I or anybody did not have to be at the ground to see that. Yet, he got away unscathed. That is the issue I have. The inconsistency, at best, could be attributed to incompetence of the officials or at worst could be construed as bias. That is however, not the main point.

Also, one final point: I don't know more than the umpires; neither do you. If everybody had to be at the cricket ground when an event happened to form an opinion as to why it happened, then James might as well pack up this website and go home.

 

[Nishant]

i completely agree with that. Thats real nice isn't it...sehwag gets fined but lara doesn't. i can't believe it. He was really disrespectful. I guess...he might have apoligised after day's play or something. i don't see any other reason for him getting away with it.

 

[marc71178]

Oh yeah, He was the saint on the ground. We all saw how respectful he was.

If he was so bad, how come the objects of him being so bad didn't see fit to report him?

 

[marc71178]

I quote from the link you provided.
****
Sehwag was found to have breached 1.5 of the ICC Code which relates to "the practice of celebrating a dismissal before the decision has been given".
****

And again, I will point you to the official ICC ruling as to why he was fined - "India's Virender Sehwag has been fined 20 per cent of his match fee for breaching the ICC Code of Conduct during his country's first Test match against the West Indies.

Sehwag pleaded guilty to excessive appealing to ICC Match Referee Jeff Crowe in a hearing after play concluded in Antigua on Tuesday."

Also, one final point: I don't know more than the umpires; neither do you. If everybody had to be at the cricket ground when an event happened to form an opinion as to why it happened, then James might as well pack up this website and go home.

No, but if the umpires, who were actually there at the time, don't deem it bad enough to be reported, then how come those of us who aren't aware of what actually went on find him guilty?

 

[silentstriker]

If he was so bad, how come the objects of him being so bad didn't see fit to report him?

Marc, so I assume you call what Lara did was acceptable behavior. I assume you re-saw what Lara did in that youtube link.

 

[marc71178]

Marc, so I assume you call what Lara did was acceptable behavior.

Without knowing what has actually been said, how can you tell us it was definitely unacceptable?

 

[viktor]

And again, I will point you to the official ICC ruling as to why he was fined - "India's Virender Sehwag has been fined 20 per cent of his match fee for breaching the ICC Code of Conduct during his country's first Test match against the West Indies.

Sehwag pleaded guilty to excessive appealing to ICC Match Referee Jeff Crowe in a hearing after play concluded in Antigua on Tuesday."



No, but if the umpires, who were actually there at the time, don't deem it bad enough to be reported, then how come those of us who aren't aware of what actually went on find
him guilty?

ICC Code of Conduct:

1.1 Breach of the Logo Policy save for breaches relating to a commercial logo or player’s bat logo as defined therein
1.2 Abuse of cricket equipment or clothing, ground equipment or fixtures and fittings
1.3 Showing dissent at an umpire’s decision by action or verbal abuse
1.4 Using language that is obscene, offensive or insulting and/or the making of an obscene gesture
1.5 Excessive appealing
....
1.5 Excessive appealing Excessive shall mean repeated appealing when the bowler/fielder knows the batsman is not out with the intention of placing the umpire under pressure. It is not intended to prevent loud or enthusiastic appealing. However, the practice of celebrating a dismissal before the decision has been given may also constitute excessive appealing.


It could have been just excessive appealing but the official, ICC report, which you brought to my notice, says it was that particular aspect of excessive appealing of which he was in vioalation.


I cannot find him guilty. I can only think he is guilty. It is my opinion, as is the opinion of a number of other people (not that that makes it true) that he was guilty of dissent and of conduct contrary to the spirit of the game. Again, go back to the code of conduct. Section 1.2 is about showing dissent at an umpire's decision. It is obvious that Lara was trying to overturn the umpire's decision to let Dhoni carry on. Thus Lara is in breach of that. Oh, btw, he is also in vioalation of Section 1.7 after his post match comments.
Ofcourse, it is still my opinion, you do not seem to have any, so lets leave it at that.

 

[Dasa]

I suppose we should shut down CricketWeb now. Since all the discussion here is only speculating on what may have happened as we "weren't there", why bother?
Logical stance, that.

 

[maxpower]

Any cricket follower would have to agree that ICC is inconsistent when it come to handling rules and fines, but ICC is not gonna admit to that. I don't think players getting fined are bothered too much by it, because if the fines were getting intolerant, they would probably risk a little bigger fine and speak out against these inconsistency. Personally I think ICC goes overboard with these small fines every now an then, they're treating cricketers like kids in a school yard punishing for every little thing they can.

 

[honestbharani]

When was that reported? What I've seen reported is that Lara said he was sure. I didn't see and haven't read anything conclusive about Ganga changing his mind on his own. Lara changed it for him, if anything.

Dhoni's interaction in accepting his dismissal was only with Lara from what I saw.

I am not so sure. I don't see how Lara could have been sure unless Ganga told him so. It would be interesting to hear what Ganga has to say on this issue. That would clarify a lot of things.

 

[honestbharani]

What Lara did deserved a fine. Let's clear that first. Even if he had used reasonable language, his actions definitely sent out a wrong signal. I still maintain that I can understand why he got so angry. But that doesn't justify him losing his temper at that point. The umps and Dravid and Dhoni and Chappell probably felt that they should avoid controversy. Maybe they felt that they themselves hadn't done as well as they should have in that situation (I def. think the umps should have taken the fielding team's word when there is no evidence to the contrary). For whatever reason, Lara got away scot free. Sehwag's was an offence as well and he was fined for it. Hence, the match officials have been inconsistent in this instance.

 

[marc71178]

I cannot find him guilty. I can only think he is guilty.

Precisely, and those who were actually party to what was said, did not think him guilty.

Now who is better informed, those watching TV or those in the middle?

 

[Dasa]

Precisely, and those who were actually party to what was said, did not think him guilty.

Now who is better informed, those watching TV or those in the middle?

So will we now see you cease to comment on anything happening on the field, since you're not in a position to be well-informed about it?

 

[marc71178]

You what?

There is a big difference between watching the play and knowing what is going on, as to something like that incident, when we do not know what was said.

 

[Dasa]

You what?

There is a big difference between watching the play and knowing what is going on, as to something like that incident, when we do not know what was said.

Anyone who saw the incident would be well-aware that Lara was out of line, no matter what was said. Yet you argue that we cannot know what was said, therefore we cannot criticise the inaction of the officials in the matter.
Taking your line of reasoning further, we can't be exactly sure of what is happening on the field since we're not there, so we shouldn't criticise the players should they make a mistake. For all you know, there may be other things happening in the background which causes a players error - what gives you the right to criticise in such a situation if we cannot criticise what has happened here?

 

[viktor]

Precisely, and those who were actually party to what was said, did not think him guilty.

Now who is better informed, those watching TV or those in the middle?

Unfortunately, people make mistakes. I happen to think that in this case the officials made a bad call. I think that is supported by the video evidence. Why do you think Lara might not have been guilty? Don't tell me you take every act of the umpires as coming from FSM himself.