***Official*** India in West Indies

[honestbharani]

so Sehwag appealed for himself and not for his team

maybe it was because Dhoni was actually out and Sehwag's appeals weren't.


But I agree, definite double standards there.

 

[adharcric]

Like I said in my last post, Ganga contradicting himself is the basis for the whole problem. But even then, if Ganga was sure he had caught (even if he wasn't earlier) it still would have made sense if Dhoni had just walked and the umpires decided to trust the fielders' words. Anyways, it seems what irked Lara the most was that even after he had that little chat with Dhoni and claimed responsibility for his team and guaranteed their word, Dhoni still decided to talk to Kaif before deciding what to do. Maybe that is what ticked off Lara. NOt saying it was right, but it may just be how things panned out that day.

Lara's chat with Dhoni and Kaif came way later, after the umpire's decision and ball-snatching incident. He was livid when Rauf told Dhoni to play on. It shouldn't have even got to the point where he talked to the opposing batsmen about the decision; he doesn't have the right to do that. As for Ganga, wouldn't you be suspicious if someone said they're not sure and then moments later said they're positive; I'd sense a little BS.

 

[honestbharani]

I could still take it if there was some consistency...but the fact that Lara got away with something that is blatantly against the 'spirit of the game' he spoke about after the incident is galling.

I still think the umps and Dhoni not taking the word of the fielder (inspite of having zero evidence to the contrary) as something that was against the spirit of the game. Having said that, Lara def. deserved a fine, a higher % than what Sehwag got, simply because even though it is understandable why he got angry, such public outbursts aren't done in the international arena. Maybe it was the fact that what the umps and Dhoni themselves did being slightly against the spirit of the game that led them to drop the incident without reporting him.

 

[honestbharani]

An insightful reflection on this controversy at Cricinfo. Check it out.

slightly biased. I still think it was stupid of the umps and the player involved to NOT take the word of the fielder. Ganga may not have been sure at first, but later on he was and that is when Lara got into the act. Not that difficult to have accepted his word straightaway and walked off. I agree that Lara did go overboard but that commentary isn't all that insightful.

But I agree that Sehwag getting penalized is even more ridiculous.

 

[adharcric]

slightly biased. I still think it was stupid of the umps and the player involved to NOT take the word of the fielder. Ganga may not have been sure at first, but later on he was and that is when Lara got into the act. Not that difficult to have accepted his word straightaway and walked off. I agree that Lara did go overboard but that commentary isn't all that insightful.

But I agree that Sehwag getting penalized is even more ridiculous.

How can Ganga change his mind on what happened? Something doesn't sound right to me.

 

[honestbharani]

In that case his history mattered because the over-rate isn't as blatant an offense IMO. For what Lara did, just doing it once is enough to merit a fine. Yes, he did snatch the ball from the umpire. Duh, he didn't scratch Rauf on the arm, slap him on the left cheek, shove him and then steal the ball ... but he did take the ball away from him when he wasn't given the ball and then went on ignoring Rauf. The other "dissent" act was privately asking Dhoni to declare himself out after he had already been given not out.

Yeah, Lara did go overboard but I don't think him talking to Dhoni is any great offence. He was simply guaranteeing his team mates' words to his opponent.

 

[adharcric]

Yeah, Lara did go overboard but I don't think him talking to Dhoni is any great offence. He was simply guaranteeing his team mates' words to his opponent.

Right but he said "I think you should walk". I know it's not the end of the world, but if you're going to be strict about so many things (as is the case in cricket) like slow-over rate and excessive appealing, this classifies as extreme. He challenged the umpire's verdict; simple as that.

 

[Dasa]

Bharani, you keep saying they should take the fielders word....why on earth would they do that if he's first said he's not sure, and then suddenly is sure after talking with his captain?
No cricketer in his right mind would walk if the fielder said he was not sure if the catch was legal or not.

At the end of the day, Dhoni clarified what had gone on: "Brian came up to me and said, 'I'm taking the charge of my players', as in taking the responsibility of his players, and 'I think you should walk off. What they [my players] say is going to be the truth'. Then we decided that I should walk off. He came late to me. Daren came first and it was tough for him because it [the boundary rope] was on his back side. And it's hard to feel a piece of paper when it's behind you. So he was not entirely sure about it, he said, 'I'm not really sure if I stepped on it'."

 

[marc71178]

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wivind/content/current/story/249874.html



*****
Sehwag was found to have breached section 1.5 of the ICC Code which relates to "the practice of celebrating a dismissal before the decision has been given". He removed Dwayne Bravo and Denesh Ramdin on the final day as West Indies hung on by one-wicket to save the match.
******

Ah, but the actual offence he admitted to is excessive appealing - just because the rule includes other offences does not mean he got charged for them.

Also, isn't it finally the match ref's responsibility whether or not the umps report it? (Not a rhetorical question, am confused about that aspect.)

AFAIK for something like dissent it would have to come from the umpires - how can the match referee cite him if he's not out there?

No that wasn't dissent (jayawardene). It was acting against the spirit of the game. My point is, if the match ref there could not be understanding enough to take into account jaya..'s reaction given the match situation, why was Lara given that benefit? his actions are also against the spirit of the game.

The match referee did take Jayawardene's immediate apology into account, hence the fine was 20% and not bigger.

 

[marc71178]

But I agree that Sehwag getting penalized is even more ridiculous.

Why?

He even admitted to the offence!

 

[Dasa]

Why?

He even admitted to the offence!

Surely even you can see that even though the offences aren't the same, one is worse than the other. Thus, it seems highly inconsistent to punish one (whether Sehwag admitted to the offence or not) and let the other off scot-free.

 

[marc71178]

The only people who know what went on in the Lara case are the umpires.

If they don't see there's a case to answer, then its perfectly right, the offences aresn't the same, as only 1 is an offence.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

We'll need a spearhead for the attack though like Edwards was and Taylor's the fastest of the lot in the squad.

Picking Taylor over Collins is like picking Lee over McGrath.
Collins is a much better bowler and much more likely to take wickets. The only question in my mind is match fitness of Collins.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I must say, that sounds pretty stupd. With a lbw decision it makes sense, but when a guy's caught out, why would you turn around?

Because you don't know if it's out until the umpire says he hit it?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The only people who know what went on in the Lara case are the umpires.

If they don't see there's a case to answer, then its perfectly right, the offences aresn't the same, as only 1 is an offence.

Agreed.

As bad as his behaviour looked to me, I was miles and hours away in the comfort of my home. The umpires who were in the middle are two of the finest in world cricket. I'd not think they'd be easily overawed by the legend that is Lara.

Besides, I really don't see what Sehwag being fined has to do with anything. That like justifying a poor not out lbw decision by saying someone else received a correct caught behind decision. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The problem was, Liam, first he said he wasn't sure. Then he went up to Lara and said he was sure. AT least, that is how all the reports indicate things to have been. Then it is clear that a part of the blame should be on him.

When was that reported? What I've seen reported is that Lara said he was sure. I didn't see and haven't read anything conclusive about Ganga changing his mind on his own. Lara changed it for him, if anything.

Dhoni's interaction in accepting his dismissal was only with Lara from what I saw.

 

[roseboy64]

Utter rubbish. First of all, the match referee is not there to listen to complaints from players and coaches and appease them. He is getting paid to assess the on-field conduct according to the well-known standards of cricket. The motive behind Lara's action doesn't mean anything; no one ever acts poorly just to be an ***, they all do it because they are competitive and don't have control over their actions. As for him being "human", that's trash too. He wasn't supposed to get fined because he's a bad individual, he was supposed to get fined for his bad action/conduct. There is no excuse for this.

All I'm saying is that both captains, coaches, umpires and the match referee talked about the incident after the day's play. If they see it fit not to issue a fine then why should we?Obviously, Lara's involvement would have been talked about it and I'm guessing the majority decided that his actions were not one of dissent. We don't know what was said on the field except what Dhoni said.

 

[Sanz]

When was that reported? What I've seen reported is that Lara said he was sure. I didn't see and haven't read anything conclusive about Ganga changing his mind on his own. Lara changed it for him, if anything.

Dhoni's interaction in accepting his dismissal was only with Lara from what I saw.

Oh sure sure. Your objective analysis was the only thing that was missing from this thread. Thank You very much. Now we can all relax and enjoy the series.

 

[Sanz]

The only people who know what went on in the Lara case are the umpires.

If they don't see there's a case to answer, then its perfectly right, the offences aresn't the same, as only 1 is an offence.

Just because he got away, doesn't mean he didn't deserve one.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Oh sure sure. Your objective analysis was the only thing that was missing from this thread. Thank You very much. Now we can all relax and enjoy the series.

As much as you would like to paint me as biased, I assure you that you're only coming off as a disgruntled fan with a vendetta. Less tears please.

Maybe then your vision would be clear enough to see that I actually criticized Lara in that post. Less. Tears. kthnxbye