***Official*** India in West Indies

[Sanz]

As much as you would like to paint me as biased

Paint you ? You dont need any painting dude.

I assure you that you're only coming off as a disgruntled fan with a vendetta. Less tears please.Maybe then your vision would be clear enough to see that I actually criticized Lara in that post. Less. Tears. kthnxbye

Only tears that is coming out has been from the WI fans and their Captain. It is evident in that video by raymond. As for your criticism..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Paint you ? You dont need any painting dude.

Only tears that is coming out has been from the WI fans and their Captain. It is evident in that video by raymond. As for your criticism..

You're really the only one who sees me as biased. If I were biased, I'd have had a lot more fun on these forums during the one-day series.

Laughter can't hide the turmoil. Less tears please.

 

[viktor]

Ah, but the actual offence he admitted to is excessive appealing - just because the rule includes other offences does not mean he got charged for them.




AFAIK for something like dissent it would have to come from the umpires - how can the match referee cite him if he's not out there?




The match referee did take Jayawardene's immediate apology into account, hence the fine was 20% and not bigger.

1) The article says Sehwag breached section1.5 of the ICC code, specifically relating to his celebrating before the ump gave his decision.
2) Then it is the ump's mistake. Lara's act was pretty clearly a case of dissent and a somthing contravening the spirit of the game.
3) Okay, so Lara should also have been fined 20%, given the match situation. I do not see why he should not be fined at all.

 

[the_last_rites]

man this sucks terribly. Asad Rauf look like a gentle reproving father when Lara was going ballistic with his tantrums. Sehwag fined or not, Lara deserved one alright. Pointing at the bat is dissent but holding off play for 15 mins and arguing with the umpires to reverse their decision isnt?

 

[the_last_rites]

When was that reported? What I've seen reported is that Lara said he was sure. I didn't see and haven't read anything conclusive about Ganga changing his mind on his own. Lara changed it for him, if anything.

Dhoni's interaction in accepting his dismissal was only with Lara from what I saw.

dude it wouldnt hurt you to read up a little more . Dhoni actually stated that Ganga 1st walked upto him and said that he wasnt sure. It was on most papers

 

[viktor]

Agreed.

As bad as his behaviour looked to me, I was miles and hours away in the comfort of my home. The umpires who were in the middle are two of the finest in world cricket. I'd not think they'd be easily overawed by the legend that is Lara.

Besides, I really don't see what Sehwag being fined has to do with anything. That like justifying a poor not out lbw decision by saying someone else received a correct caught behind decision. It doesn't make sense.

Its not just Sehwag, Ja'dene received a fine for what was an impulsive act due to frustration at himself. It is not justifying anything. The question is, why has there been no consistency on the part of the match refs (crowe and the guy in eng-sl) and/ or the umps (the gentlemen standing in this test)?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

dude it wouldnt hurt you to read up a little more . Dhoni actually stated that Ganga 1st walked upto him and said that he wasnt sure. It was on most papers

And is that not what I said?
What's your point?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Its not just Sehwag, Ja'dene received a fine for what was an impulsive act due to frustration at himself. It is not justifying anything. The question is, why has there been no consistency on the part of the match refs (crowe and the guy in eng-sl) and/ or the umps (the gentlemen standing in this test)?

Well that's fair enough to be a call for consistency, but that doesn't make it right to insinuate that Sehwag was fairly treated in his fine. He broke the rules. He was fined.

The fact that Lara too broke the rules and was not fined doesn't change that.

I'm not saying that you in particular insinuated anything, btw.

 

[viktor]

Well that's fair enough to be a call for consistency, but that doesn't make it right to insinuate that Sehwag was unfairly treated in his fine. He broke the rules. He was fined.

The fact that Lara too broke the rules and was not fined doesn't change that.

I'm not saying that you in particular insinuated anything, btw.

is't that what you mean't?
I wouldn't comment on the others but my stand has all along been that the match officials were inconsistent.

 

[Sanz]

Well that's fair enough to be a call for consistency, but that doesn't make it right to insinuate that Sehwag was fairly treated in his fine. He broke the rules. He was fined.

The fact that Lara too broke the rules and was not fined doesn't change that.

I'm not saying that you in particular insinuated anything, btw.

And if you had read posts without your glasses (tinted ones), you would have noticed that most people were upset over the inconsistency and necessarily claiming Sehwag's innocense.

But hey you are the only self confessed unbiased one here, yet jump on to call others as 'Disgruntled fan' just because they happen to be supporting India.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Boohoo much?

And if you had read posts without your glasses (tinted ones), you would have noticed that most people were upset over the inconsistency and necessarily claiming Sehwag's innocense.

But hey you are the only self confessed unbiased one here, yet jump on to call others as 'Disgruntled fan' just because they happen to be supporting India.

Thanks for opening my eyes man. I didn't realize what I was doing...

- slagging off India.
- calling India's bowling attack crap.
- defending Lara.
- calling the West Indies a better team than India.

etc. etc etc.

Oh wait... I wasn't.
Statements such as "The West Indies is clearly a worse team overseas than India is" are so clearly due to a heavy bias on my part.
I'd take off the tinted glasses, but they make me look so good.

Seriously Mr. Sanz, the tears are getting annoying now. Less emotion please. Suck it up.

 

[silentstriker]

Boohoo much?

Thanks for opening my eyes man. I didn't realize what I was doing...

- slagging off India.

You should have been.

- calling India's bowling attack crap.

You should have, because it is.

- defending Lara.

Eh...that's debatable.

- calling the West Indies a better team than India.

In India, they aren't. In WI, they are.

So even if you had been doing all of those things, you wouldn't have been in the wrong .

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

In India, they aren't. Outside, they are.

I disagree. India may be a poor overseas team, but the West Indies is worse. The last time the West Indies won a meaningful Test was in 2000, against England. They then lost the series 3-1. Before that series we lost 2-0 in New Zealand and 5-0 on South Africa. I don't remember the exact results for series before that. I believe we were swept in Pakistan though.

Last few Test series results (away):

2-0 in New Zealand
3-0 in Australia
2-0 in Sri Lanka

You get the idea.

Added to that, the West Indies hardly wins ODIs overseas either. At least India remains somewhat competitive in one form of the game.

 

[silentstriker]

I disagree. India may be a poor overseas team, but the West Indies is worse. The last time the West Indies won a meaningful Test was in 2000, against England. They then lost the series 3-1. Before that series we lost 2-0 in New Zealand and 5-0 on South Africa. I don't remember the exact results for series before that. I believe we were swept in Pakistan though.

Last few Test series results (away):

2-0 in New Zealand
3-0 in Australia
2-0 in Sri Lanka

You get the idea.

Added to that, the West Indies hardly wins ODIs overseas either. At least India remains somewhat competitive in one form of the game.

Well I meant IN west indies. Not places like Australia, or England. In those places, India does have the edge.

 

[adharcric]

The only people who know what went on in the Lara case are the umpires.

If they don't see there's a case to answer, then its perfectly right, the offences aresn't the same, as only 1 is an offence.

At least think of something better than that. Don't assume that the umpires had the guts to fine Lara and just didn't feel he deserved one, because that can't be true. If millions of fans were offended by Lara's actions on the field, I don't see how the umpire himself wouldn't be, especially when the umpire (Rauf) clearly showed his annoyance with Lara on the field. By the way, these millions of fans are not just Indians.

 

[adharcric]

Because you don't know if it's out until the umpire says he hit it?

Yeah when it's a fine edge you should look back. Just wondering, do they actually punish you for example if the ball is caught at backwards point and you don't look back at the umpire? That was the situation I was referring to more.

 

[adharcric]

When was that reported? What I've seen reported is that Lara said he was sure. I didn't see and haven't read anything conclusive about Ganga changing his mind on his own. Lara changed it for him, if anything.

Dhoni's interaction in accepting his dismissal was only with Lara from what I saw.

Dhoni first saw the dismissal and started to walk. Dravid told him to stay back. Dhoni talked to Ganga and Ganga told him he wasn't sure. Then Rauf gave him not out. Then Lara tells Dhoni that his fielder has caught it and his word should be trusted and Dhoni should walk. What would be going on in Dhoni's head? The fielder says one thing and the captain puts something else in his mouth, something's wrong.

 

[adharcric]

All I'm saying is that both captains, coaches, umpires and the match referee talked about the incident after the day's play. If they see it fit not to issue a fine then why should we?Obviously, Lara's involvement would have been talked about it and I'm guessing the majority decided that his actions were not one of dissent. We don't know what was said on the field except what Dhoni said.

I can't believe so many people are using this same flawed argument that the umpires didn't feel the need so it wasn't necessary. The credibility of the umpires is exactly what we're debating ... how clueless can you get. If I had to take a guess, I'd say Dravid/Chappell probably didn't say anything because they would want to avoid controversy, at least Dravid. (as evident from his declaration) His actions involved dissent ... without a doubt.

 

[adharcric]

Well that's fair enough to be a call for consistency, but that doesn't make it right to insinuate that Sehwag was fairly treated in his fine. He broke the rules. He was fined.

The fact that Lara too broke the rules and was not fined doesn't change that.

I'm not saying that you in particular insinuated anything, btw.

We're not really talking about the incidents in isolation. Also, they ARE related. Both are breaches of the code of conduct. You can't let one off by saying that the other was let off (or the other way around), but you should have consistency. No one really cares about Sehwag's fine by itself; it's the double standards that are appalling.

 

[Sanz]

Dont say a word Adharcric, Liam is so objective that he can see Lara doing nothing wrong. All the WI newspapers reports are wrong. Lara was so polite to Rauf, Lara requested Rauf that if he could take the ball and get on with the game, how could you miss that.