***Official*** India in West Indies

[honestbharani]

And that's never happened, has it?

Nope, not with Darren Ganga and Brian Lara. There is a reason why the Windies are regarded to be one of the more honest teams and Lara is regarded to be one of the more honest players.

 

[honestbharani]

I'd be suprised if he hasn't...unless he walks every time (which he doesn't). I'm sure in the hundreds of times that he's been dismissed in international cricket, a few of them he was sure, and still waited for the umpire's decision.

nope, he has walked every time and a number of times when the umpire hadn't given him out.

 

[honestbharani]

Would Lara have walked in this case, without waiting for 3rd Umpire's decision ?

he did, back in Australia. Mark Waugh caught a very low catch at slips and the 3rd umpire wasn't sure and he just asked Waugh and then marched off. It was the 2001 series, IIRC.

 

[honestbharani]

Yes, the captain should always stand up for his team. Lara did much more than that - he argued with the umpires after a decision had been taken, he snatched the ball away from Asad Rauf, he ignored the umpire's authority and proceeded to take matters into his own hands by directly giving Dhoni a lecture on why he should declare his innings. In fact, Lara should thank Dravid for declaring the innings before Lara did anything further to earn himself a massive fine. Nevertheless, if he isn't fined, either Billy Doctrove and co. are ridiculously biased or just plain bad umpires.

I am pretty sure that all Lara did was explain to Dhoni that he is guaranteeing the word of his team mates. Still think Lara's conduct is at fault and should be fined, but it is not as bad as the Indian media and some of the guys here are making it out to be. He lost his temper and should be fined for it. End of story. And losing one's temper in itself is kinda antagonistic to the spirit of the game.

Having said all that, I still think Dhoni could have taken Ganga's word and walked off. Obviously, Ganga first said that he wasn't sure nad then said that he was sure and that must have confused Dhoni and I really don't think you can fault him for anything he did, but it would have nice if he had just taken Ganga's word the second time and walked off. I would def. trust the words of the Windies players (except guys like Best). In my experience, they have been amongst the most honest and well behaved guys in world cricket.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

That was brilliant, Sreesanth's ring was going o()o()o() for that last over bless him. Well done Windies.

 

[andyc]

Looks like it was a hell of a match, well played by India to get themselves back into it after facing a first innings deficit, and then well played to the Windies to hang in for the draw.

 

[adharcric]

Pedro Collins has been called up to replace the injured Fidel Edwards. I reckon Taylor will still get the start in the 2nd test. (??)

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Nope, not with Darren Ganga and Brian Lara. There is a reason why the Windies are regarded to be one of the more honest teams and Lara is regarded to be one of the more honest players.

It's really a shame if Daren Ganga gets any stick over this though, as he did nothing that should tarnish his reputation. It was very clear that he indicated that he was uncertain as to whether he touched the boundary line.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Pedro Collins has been called up to replace the injured Fidel Edwards. I reckon Taylor will still get the start in the 2nd test. (??)

I hope not. Collins (even with less match practice) is still a better bowler. Taylor still has a way to go to match Collins. Also, Collins has been playing club cricket at home as recently as this past weekend I think. I heard he took 3-17 in a OD match.

 

[silentstriker]

It's really a shame if Daren Ganga gets any stick over this though, as he did nothing that should tarnish his reputation. It was very clear that he indicated that he was uncertain as to whether he touched the boundary line.

Nah, Ganga did the right thing. But then, if Ganga said he wasn't sure about the boundry line, why was Lara so adamant? If even the fielder wasn't sure, shouldn't the doubt have gone to the batsman?

I said earlier that the word of the fielder should be taken, and thats true...but if he is not sure...then it surely has to go to the benefit of the batsman.

In any case, it doesn't matter as it didn't really effect the outcome of the match.

 

[viktor]

Nope, not with Darren Ganga and Brian Lara. There is a reason why the Windies are regarded to be one of the more honest teams and Lara is regarded to be one of the more honest players.

And I did not say it had happened with Ganga or Lara. I just said, it has happened.

 

[viktor]

I am pretty sure that all Lara did was explain to Dhoni that he is guaranteeing the word of his team mates. Still think Lara's conduct is at fault and should be fined, but it is not as bad as the Indian media and some of the guys here are making it out to be. He lost his temper and should be fined for it. End of story. And losing one's temper in itself is kinda antagonistic to the spirit of the game.

Having said all that, I still think Dhoni could have taken Ganga's word and walked off. Obviously, Ganga first said that he wasn't sure nad then said that he was sure and that must have confused Dhoni and I really don't think you can fault him for anything he did, but it would have nice if he had just taken Ganga's word the second time and walked off. I would def. trust the words of the Windies players (except guys like Best). In my experience, they have been amongst the most honest and well behaved guys in world cricket.

Once the decision is placed in the hands of the umpires, it is dissent if Lara tries to influence it in any way. I'm sure Lara didn't threaten Dhoni with his life if he didn't walk, but even him telling him "I think you should walk" is wrong. Its also a matter of personalities, if some Aussie had done it, ppl on here would be up in arms about the Aussies neglecting the spirit of the game and what not.
Ganga's word, 1st or 3rd, was that he wasn't sure and Dhoni did the right thing by staying on.

 

[Sanz]

he did, back in Australia. Mark Waugh caught a very low catch at slips and the 3rd umpire wasn't sure and he just asked Waugh and then marched off. It was the 2001 series, IIRC.

The difference is Waugh was sure that he took the catch, Ganga wasn't sure and he said so. And as you said, Lara did wait for the 3rd Umpire's decision meaning he didn't take Waugh's word first time.

 

[roseboy64]

I hope not. Collins (even with less match practice) is still a better bowler. Taylor still has a way to go to match Collins. Also, Collins has been playing club cricket at home as recently as this past weekend I think. I heard he took 3-17 in a OD match.

We'll need a spearhead for the attack though like Edwards was and Taylor's the fastest of the lot in the squad.

 

[adharcric]

Well then, Sehwag has been fined for excessive appealing while no action has been taken against Lara. This is absolutely disgraceful.
Either Billy Doctrove is a biased coward or the ICC is a load of ********. I don't know what Lara's angelic reputation did to save him here, but that reputation is gone for me.
Simply being a master batsman doesn't translate into "class", and it's rather unfortunate that I'll never have the same respect for this legend.
As for Ganga, Dhoni and Dravid ... their conduct was just fine.

 

[Dasa]

Well then, Sehwag has been fined for excessive appealing while no action has been taken against Lara. This is absolutely disgraceful.
Either Billy Doctrove is a biased coward or the ICC is a load of ********. I don't know what Lara's angelic reputation did to save him here, but that reputation is gone for me.
Simply being a master batsman doesn't translate into "class", and it's rather unfortunate that I'll never have the same respect for this legend.
As for Ganga, Dhoni and Dravid ... their conduct was just fine.

Unbelievable....

 

[viktor]

Well, Lara has had a clean record till now, that might have gone in his favour. Indians in general have a reputation of being excessive appealers so Sehwag got the fine.
Double standards, but what are you gonna do?

 

[roseboy64]

Well Dravid and Chapell were present when they(officials) were talking about the Dhoni incident so unless they were totally ignored we can assume they had no problem withit so neither should anyone else. He stood up for his team but probably should have done it more courteously, I can understand if he didn't though and the way he reacted, he is human after all.

 

[biased indian]

Well Dravid and Chapell were present when they(officials) were talking about the Dhoni incident so unless they were totally ignored we can assume they had no problem withit so neither should anyone else. He stood up for his team but probably should have done it more courteously, I can understand if he didn't though and the way he reacted, he is human after all.

so Sehwag appealed for himself and not for his team

 

[viktor]

Well Dravid and Chapell were present when they(officials) were talking about the Dhoni incident so unless they were totally ignored we can assume they had no problem withit so neither should anyone else. He stood up for his team but probably should have done it more courteously, I can understand if he didn't though and the way he reacted, he is human after all.

Dravid and Chappell have or should have no say whatsoever in the decision to penalize any one for dissent. It should be the match referee's decision.
All Sehwag did was not look at the ump when Bravo got out. It isn't really dissent; no player, even Bravo, would call that dissent. The match referee made the call that it was dissent based on some rulebook. The question is, isn't snatching the ball from an umpire dissent? And it isn't just about Sehwag, Jayawardene was fined 20% for breaking his stumps when he got out. Isn't what Lara did worse than that? Don't think of this as Indians crying sour grapes, this is also about consistency from the referees.