***Official*** India in Sri Lanka

[SJS]

He has had several of those, I will not deny it, nor am I ignoring it. In fact, I've probably watched (live) every one of his centuries, and while some have been good, more than half have been on pitches that offer no chance of a result. If he was merely adequate in the second innings, I might think of him highly, but just watching him when things are happening tells you all you need to know in most cases. Sometimes statistics can deceive, but his average of 27.75 in the second innings tells you everything. And its not just the second innings, as he makes up for it by having a great first innings average, but its when pitch starts doing things.

Except for a couple notable exceptions, he is not the person I will rely on if I have to score runs on a dodgy pitch or against great bowling. And yes, I am fully admitting that yesterday was fantastic, and I said in the main thread that this was the best knock I have ever seen from him.

It is possible to appreciate his knock and give him his accolades without vastly overrating him (as putting him in the company of Gavaskar or Merchant is doing, in my opinion).

You are right about one thing though. His record is certainly not that great in matches won by India. The avg is 43.6 as against 71.3 in matches drawn. Wonder how it is for the others. One would expect drawn matches to, generally be high scoring ut then...

Interesting....

 

[silentstriker]

The irony that his best knock now, in difficult conditions, will again add to the above perception because it was in the first innings.

No, as I've said (repeatedly) that this was his best knock ever.

 

[Ikki]

No, as I've said (repeatedly) that this was his best knock ever.

I was referring to the fact that if one were to look up those statistics again that his best knock ironically occured when it was "easier". Or that his lightning fast triple century against the saffies will also fall to that same generalisation...even though he scored 50% of his team's runs.

 

[SJS]

Okay here it is

Everyone performs better than their overall average in drawn games. This is to be expected since logically drawn games should mean high scoring. Do here is how the top Indian players fare in drawn games

Dravid	71.8
[B]Sehwag	71.27[/B]
Sachin	68.7
Ganguly	62.05
Laxman	58.72

Everyone performs much better than their overall average. Dont be taken in by Laxman and ganguly's figures. They benefit the most in comparison to their much lower overall career averages which are 10-12 points lower than the others. So nothing spectacular here.

In games where there is a result (irrespective of loss or win) they perform as under.

Sachin	48.2
Dravid	46.15
[B]Sehwag	40.3[/B]
Laxman	38.03
Ganguly	33.21

Everyone performs lower than their overall figure Sehwag's figures are not as bad as one thought though Tendulkar and Dravid are much better.

Now we break up the result games into games won and lost. Here the difference is glaring.

In matches won by India...

Dravid	73.4
Sachin	63.6
Laxman	53.02
Ganguly	47.76
[B]Sehwag	43.6[/B]

Aha, as was being claimed, in matches won by India Sehwag actually scores less than his overall average. He is the only one. Everyone else does much better than their overall figures. Strange and very interesting. Needs further analysis.

Finally figures for matches lost by India...

[B]Sehwag	37.21[/B]
Sachin	36.9
Laxman	26.6
Dravid	26.4
Ganguly	23.88

As is to be expected, in the lost matches, everyone performs below their average but guess what, Sehwag performs the best of the five. Thats strange too. If he was such a dud on poor wickets then how come he performs better than his colleagues on wickets which are bad for Indian batsmen. He bats better than the others when their backs are to the wall ?

Surely, it cant be anyone's case that the wickets in matches India loses are better for batting than the one's where they win.

I think the reason must have to do with the problem in Sehwags second innings figures. But it needs greater looking into.

 

[Jakester1288]

May I ask where you find all those statistics?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

CricInfo StatsGuru, most likely.

 

[Uppercut]

Dravid	73.4
Sachin	63.6
Laxman	53.02
Ganguly	47.76
[B]Sehwag	43.6[/B]

Aha, as was being claimed, in matches won by India Sehwag actually scores less than his overall average. He is the only one. Everyone else does much better than their overall figures. Strange and very interesting. Needs further analysis.
.

I think that particular statistic is quite anomalous. A strange coincidence IMO. Also, it doesn't take anything away from a batsman when he scores a fantastic century in an ultimately futile cause, especially because it's not a case of failure to accelarate with the tail or score quickly to help force a result, something Dravid is sometimes guilty of.

My personal opinion of Sehwag is that he's absolutely fantastic. My favourite batsman to watch along with Shiv Chanderpaul, ironically. One is sometimes under-appreciated because he's so aggressive, the other because he's so unimposing.

 

[SJS]

May I ask where you find all those statistics?

statsguru on cricinfo

 

[Jakester1288]

India need to make a change now. Sri Lanka are having no trouble playing Singh and Kumble at the moment and the two Jayawardenes are just crusing along. Maybe see if Kahn can get any swing or give a part timer like Sehwag to have a crack.

As I type this, Singh gets his 5th wicket of the innings, and Sri Lanka are in trouble at 6/255.

 

[Jakester1288]

Another wicket, this time Singh catching it off Kumble. Singh is looking for man of the match here. And with P Jayawardene gone and now Vass, he has so much pressure on him. 7/255.

 

[alternative]

Kumble gets a wicket finally.

 

[sanga1337]

Kumble gets hit on the thumb of his bowling hand. Looks in a lot of pain but is continuing to bowl

 

[SJS]

I think that particular statistic is quite anomalous. A strange coincidence IMO. Also, it doesn't take anything away from a batsman when he scores a fantastic century in an ultimately futile cause, especially because it's not a case of failure to accelarate with the tail or score quickly to help force a result, something Dravid is sometimes guilty of.

My personal opinion of Sehwag is that he's absolutely fantastic. My favourite batsman to watch along with Shiv Chanderpaul, ironically. One is sometimes under-appreciated because he's so aggressive, the other because he's so unimposing.

I think it is significant though I am the one supposed to be defending Sehwag , no ?

I feel the problem lies in his strike rate which is unchanging over different innings.

SS does have a point that Sehwag's stats are somewhat skewed but his not doing well even in matches won are quite remarkable. I suspect, it has to do with his continuing his merry way irrespective of the stage of the match.

Here are his strike rates in the four innings of Test matches played by him (in brackets are his batting averages).

1st Innings of the match : 75.1 (70.5)
2nd Innings of the match : 80.6 (68.6)
3rd Innings of the match : 74.4 (27.1)
4th Innings of the match : 71.7 (28.6)

Surely those strike rates in the third and fourth innings of the match, probably on the 3rd to 5th day of the match, are too similar to what he does in the first innings.

Of course, this should not surprise, his attitude that is, but with the condition of the wicket often changing considerably over the duration of the match, the batsman would have to change his tactics to counter it. Sehwag doesn't, not at all. That cant fail to have an effect.

Its one thing to conquer the best bowlers in the world with brilliant aggression but how to counter the unpredictable and unexpected that may come from the uncertain ground conditions. There is a bit of an issue here it would seem.

 

[Dissector]

I don't think there is any question that Sehwag isn't very good at playing in difficult conditions. That is why he can't be considered in the rank of the greatest openers. However the point is that even his big hundreds on fairly flat wickets contribute to the team; helping save the game like in Adelaide earlier this year or giving India a chance to win.

He has only hit two hundreds in games that India has won but has been unlucky on a few occasions. The most obvious is the 155 he hit in the rained out game against Australia a few years ago. His 173 in Mohali against Pakistan in 2005 also gave India a good chance to win. Finally India was very close to winning in St Lucia on their last tour when he hit 180. If India had pulled off a couple of those wins his average in winning games would certainly improve significantly.

 

[SJS]

I don't think there is any question that Sehwag isn't very good at playing in difficult conditions. That is why he can't be considered in the rank of the greatest openers. However the point is that even his big hundreds on fairly flat wickets contribute to the team; helping save the game like in Adelaide earlier this year or giving India a chance to win.

He has only hit two hundreds in games that India has won but has been unlucky on a few occasions. The most obvious is the 155 he hit in the rained out game against Australia a few years ago. His 173 in Mohali against Pakistan in 2005 also gave India a good chance to win. Finally India was very close to winning in St Lucia on their last tour when he hit 180. If India had pulled off a couple of those wins his average in winning games would certainly improve significantly.

Look here my dear, you dont have to convince me on how good Sehwag is. I am sold. I just said he is on my all time India side replacing the legendary Vijay Merchant.

But he ain't perfect and no amount of deification is going to make him.

 

[Dissector]

But he ain't perfect and no amount of deification is going to make him.

Hey, I never said he was perfect!! In fact just now I wrote that he wasn't very good in tough conditions.

Meanwhile coming back to the match, I hope Kumble's thumb injury isn't going to affect his bowling in the last innings though tbh he has looked a bit toothless in the series so far.

 

[Arjun]

The Indian fielding has been dreadful. It's a cause for concern. Wonder why nothing has been done about it. Giving away easy singles, letting go of half-chances, they're miles behind the Lankan fielders.

 

[Jakester1288]

Both the batsmen at the crease at the moment have been batting really well. Jayawardene is looking for his 100 now, and I will be gutted if h doesn't get it. He has battled through the toough times and now he has only the tail to get him through. Kulasekara has batted really well against the spinners, playing straight and occasionally looking at scoring some runs. If these two can bat until lunch and then keep going, Sri Lanka will be in a very good position to win this match.

 

[aussie]

Look here my dear, you dont have to convince me on how good Sehwag is. I am sold. I just said he is on my all time India side replacing the legendary Vijay Merchant.

But he ain't perfect and no amount of deification is going to make him.

You sure about this SJS?. Since straight up if thats your stance of Sehwag ATM i'll have no choice but to follow suite.

edit: to add

Lets say India's all-time got to WI, AUS, ENG or SA with such great fast-bowlers & tough batting conditions expected you sure you wan to risk him at the top with Gavaskar?.

Why not go for Mankad who has some big runs as an opener & bring in someone like Vishwanath into the middle-order to compliment Dravid/Tendulkar/Hazare.

But i reckon you could try Sehwag in a home test given you would be expecting India to prepare flat tracks that are condusive to spin bowling.

 

[Jakester1288]

Jayawardene gone, Kumble bowled well for that wicket, and got a little bit of extra bounce and turn, which lead Jayawardene to getting the outside edge. Well played to him, 86 in tough conditions with Kumble and Singh breathing down his next.

Mendis gone in the same over, LBW and Sri Lanka in trouble 9/291, with Muralidaran coming to the crease.