***Official*** India in South Africa

[Pratters]

why is that not happening though? he has more or less stopped with the slam-bang stuff right? so then where is the measured, team back-bone style innings? i know i'm repeating myself, but where is the consistency? if the team doesn't drop him, he can continue on for a long time, that's not the point...the point is whether he is able to maintain the elevated standards he set for himself(and by that i don't necessarily mean the blazing brilliance of his youth, but a mature, tempered style)....the evidence of the past 2-3 years certainly suggests otherwise, doesn't it...?

The consistency isn't there.. agreed. The selectors should not drop him only if they believe he will be useful to the team and not based on reputation.

I repeat as well, I do believe he has it in left to make good runs of the standards expected of him. The last 2 or so years have been injury marred and him being in and out of the team. Also, his one day stats haven't been bad and as you say, he does show glimpses, and clear signs where I am concerned, that he has not lost it. That is my take any way.

 

[JBH001]

What difference does it make?

Sachin has been playing since the 89/90 series against Pakistan in Pakistan when he went up against Wasim/Waqar/Imran and Qadir (maybe?) as a 16 year old.

Usually, at least traditionally, the early 30s are held to be the peak years for a batsman but in Sachin's case I think his peak was his mid 20's. It is not so much the physical wear and tear in Sachin's case but the mental wear and tear - not just the pressure of international cricket and all that, but the burden of being 'Sachin Tendulkar'.
A load he has carried with considerable grace and class over the long course of his career.

Last night I looked at the scores and saw Sachin on 0 not out and really hoped that he might be able to score some decent runs, at least a 50 or even a 100! But a small voice in my head said he will probably score a duck - and on looking at the scores this morning I found that he sadly did. And yet, I was not all that surprised.

He is unfortunately not what he was, and has not been for a long time. I think he should carry on in this series and on to the WC. But after that he should re-assess and decide what next. I would hate to see him hang on past his time, and be dropped.

A player like Sachin deserves to go out on his own terms.

 

[JBH001]

Can you even begin to comapre him with Ponting or Lara.

You are pretty obvious under that bridge, tool, but this needs a comment.

Only Lara is his equal, or even marginally his superior (due imo to greater longevity) but Ponting is the one who does not compare. Not by a long shot, or a long way.

He is not even worthy to tie up SRT's shoelaces.

 

[PhoenixFire]

You are pretty obvious under that bridge, tool, but this needs a comment.

Only Lara is his equal, or even marginally his superior (due imo to greater longevity) but Ponting is the one who does not compare. Not by a long shot, or a long way.

He is not even worthy to tie up SRT's shoelaces.

Agreed. Sachin in his prime was probably in the top 5 of all time.

 

[JBH001]

Agreed.

I am not bashing Sachin (God knows I him). But there comes a time for every player to realize that maybe someone can come in and do a equivalent or better job. Our batting lineup has been frail for a while now.

True. I also think that SRT should not be in at #4 anymore.

Especially given the terrible fragility of the Indian openers he is coming in far too early.
I think #5 would be ideal for him at this stage of his career.

 

[social]

The consistency isn't there.. agreed. The selectors should not drop him only if they believe he will be useful to the team and not based on reputation.

I repeat as well, I do believe he has it in left to make good runs of the standards expected of him. The last 2 or so years have been injury marred and him being in and out of the team. Also, his one day stats haven't been bad and as you say, he does show glimpses, and clear signs where I am concerned, that he has not lost it. That is my take any way.

Question is how badly he wants it

He ALREADY has:

35 (?) centuries

world-wide adulation

millions of dollars

wife and family

It's not quite the same as when he was 17 or 22 or even 27

 

[social]

You are pretty obvious under that bridge, tool, but this needs a comment.

Only Lara is his equal, or even marginally his superior (due imo to greater longevity) but Ponting is the one who does not compare. Not by a long shot, or a long way.

He is not even worthy to tie up SRT's shoelaces.

Look in the record books in a few years and it might be Sachin offering to tie Ricky's shoes

 

[silentstriker]

Look in the record books in a few years and it might be Sachin offering to tie Ricky's shoes

As far as records are concerned, I think so as well. In terms of rating Ponting up there...not yet...but soon at this form or if he does well in India.

 

[adharcric]

True. I also think that SRT should not be in at #4 anymore.

Especially given the terrible fragility of the Indian openers he is coming in far too early.
I think #5 would be ideal for him at this stage of his career.

#4 is too early? The real solution is to find better openers.

 

[adharcric]

Well done guys, you limited the Tool to only one piece of crap.

 

[Dravid]

Yes the body does not remain the same. However, it is not necessary that it means a player will become poorer. Courtney Walsh played 16 years of test cricket and he had great years at the end. He moulded his game. Also, a fast bowler's body takes a lot more toll than a batsman's. We cannot say because player x has played so many years, his game will necessarily deteriorate. The game of a player changes over the years but it is not the same thing to 'it has become worse'.

Courtney Walsh played almost half the number of matches that Sachin did. The effect of 500 is different of say 300 odd. But I didn't say I'm disagreeing with you.

 

[Dravid]

Do people forget that he scored 141* against Aus not too long ago?

One day - Test Cricket. Two different forms. Sachins one day form isn't bad at all, and I won't say he should retire from the shorter form any time soon. His form in Test Cricket is bad. If you saw his 50, and the way he got out against saf in the second test, first inning, it clearly shows he's lost concentration and was hungry to score quick runs. The old Sachin would never do that. Instead he would fight it out and score on the balls that deserved to me scored on.

 

[Jono]

The thing about saying "yeah we may as well sort of push Sachin out because if he's just averaging mid-40s its not worth keeping him", have you guys noticed that India tried pushing out Ganguly and Laxman yet had to call them back? (fair enough Yuvraj is injured, but still).

Tendulkar now is still a better batsman than Ganguly, so our middle order isn't in the position yet to send Tendulkar away. Kaif isn't a better batsman than Sachin yet IMO (I don't think Kaif would have scored too many with the short pitched attack, and I'm his biggest advocate on here), so its all well and good saying Sachin is past it, and he is, but he's still one of the 4 best middle order bats in India, and that's what it comes down to.

You don't drop Sachin because he's not averaging 50-60 anymore, you drop him if you have 4 better bats, and we don't. And its not like he's clogged up opportunities, other Indian batsman have had their chances in the series Sachin has missed (like the recent WI one), yet haven't taken it.

 

[Dravid]

why is that not happening though? he has more or less stopped with the slam-bang stuff right? so then where is the measured, team back-bone style innings? i know i'm repeating myself, but where is the consistency? if the team doesn't drop him, he can continue on for a long time, that's not the point...the point is whether he is able to maintain the elevated standards he set for himself(and by that i don't necessarily mean the blazing brilliance of his youth, but a mature, tempered style)....the evidence of the past 2-3 years certainly suggests otherwise, doesn't it...?

This is Sachins first series from his injury come back. He's shown good signs in ODI cricket that he can still be fairly consistent, not as much as before, but still consistent you know. His first test series coming back, he has two useful so far in two matches. His 44 in the first inning looked great and it looked like he was going to score big because he was looking really good out there. His 60 odd in this match was another great inning, with some classy shots we used to see from the old Sachin. Same with Tests, he won't be as consistent as he used to be back in his 20s, but he's showing signs that he can still be consistent enough to be in the side.

 

[Dravid]

Question is how badly he wants it

He ALREADY has:

35 (?) centuries

world-wide adulation

millions of dollars

wife and family

It's not quite the same as when he was 17 or 22 or even 27

Sachin already admitted to everyone, the guy isn't the same he used to be, but he is still hungry for more runs than he was before.

 

[Jono]

Look in the record books in a few years and it might be Sachin offering to tie Ricky's shoes

Funny you say that, people were saying Viv and Gavaskar's records would be nothing compared to Tendulkar's only 6-8 years ago.

 

[Dravid]

Look in the record books in a few years and it might be Sachin offering to tie Ricky's shoes

Just like SS said, record wise, you could. But in Sachins prime and Pontings prime(which could probably be recent time) I would pick Sachin over Ponting anyday(and I'm not being bias)

 

[Dravid]

The thing about saying "yeah we may as well sort of push Sachin out because if he's just averaging mid-40s its not worth keeping him", have you guys noticed that India tried pushing out Ganguly and Laxman yet had to call them back? (fair enough Yuvraj is injured, but still).

Tendulkar now is still a better batsman than Ganguly, so our middle order isn't in the position yet to send Tendulkar away. Kaif isn't a better batsman than Sachin yet IMO (I don't think Kaif would have scored too many with the short pitched attack, and I'm his biggest advocate on here), so its all well and good saying Sachin is past it, and he is, but he's still one of the 4 best middle order bats in India, and that's what it comes down to.

You don't drop Sachin because he's not averaging 50-60 anymore, you drop him if you have 4 better bats, and we don't. And its not like he's clogged up opportunities, other Indian batsman have had their chances in the series Sachin has missed (like the recent WI one), yet haven't taken it.

Exactly, good post. We don't have better batsman than Sachin. Apart from Dravid, I don't think I would trust anyone else to step up to the situation than Sachin. The rest are more inconsistent than him(apart Yuvraj, who has been great this year) He still shows he can score runs. Maybe not with the avg of the high 50s, but still in the high 40s, which is enough to keep a batsman in the team.

 

[social]

Sachin already admitted to everyone, the guy isn't the same he used to be, but he is still hungry for more runs than he was before.

"Wanting" it and "needing" it are 2 different things

Physically, injuries and reflexes might prevent him from playing a shot or 2 but that means playing within his "new" limitations

You'd have to assume that his eyes are as good as ever

Feet move the same

Only reason he's not as prolific as before is mental

 

[Anil]

The thing about saying "yeah we may as well sort of push Sachin out because if he's just averaging mid-40s its not worth keeping him", have you guys noticed that India tried pushing out Ganguly and Laxman yet had to call them back? (fair enough Yuvraj is injured, but still).

Tendulkar now is still a better batsman than Ganguly, so our middle order isn't in the position yet to send Tendulkar away. Kaif isn't a better batsman than Sachin yet IMO (I don't think Kaif would have scored too many with the short pitched attack, and I'm his biggest advocate on here), so its all well and good saying Sachin is past it, and he is, but he's still one of the 4 best middle order bats in India, and that's what it comes down to.

You don't drop Sachin because he's not averaging 50-60 anymore, you drop him if you have 4 better bats, and we don't. And its not like he's clogged up opportunities, other Indian batsman have had their chances in the series Sachin has missed (like the recent WI one), yet haven't taken it.

i agree that tendulkar is right now a better top/middle order test batsman than anyone in this team barring dravid and probably laxman in his current form....my discussion with pratyush centred on whether he was past his best and could really continue on into the indefinite future, and i didn't think he could...another thing, even if the kaifs and the yuvrajs might not cut it against good attacks, india needs to look at filling up positions with youngsters who have shown promise in domestic cricket, just because 5 youngsters have failed in a position doesn't necessarily mean that the 6th one will as well...that in my opinion is a better and more long-term alternative than say, going back to ganguly, however successful his comeback might seem to be right now....and that needs to happen eventually with position no: 4 as well...