*Official* English Football Season 2005-06

[Barney Rubble]

Oh right, so it's just the formation then, nothing to do with him being a proven big game flop. Yeah right.

That isn't an argument. The entire Arsenal team have flopped in big European games recently (which suggest it is the formation), although they have enjoyed great success domestically during Henry's time there (which suggests Henry's big game problem doesn't happen domestically, especially seeing as he's scored a lot of their most important goals).

The entire France team have flopped in big matches (including the likes of Zidane and Trezeguet, who are both proven big-game players) since they won Euro 2000, which once again, suggests it's something wrong with the system rather than Henry. Can you honestly say Henry and Trezeguet have been a successful partnership for France? And that they've managed to find a system that lets Zidane play in his best position? No.

And if the fact that Henry is a big-game flop is so "proven" then which games exactly has he flopped in, in which the rest of his team-mates have performed adequately?

 

[Scaly piscine]

That isn't an argument. The entire Arsenal team have flopped in big European games recently (which suggest it is the formation), although they have enjoyed great success domestically during Henry's time there (which suggests Henry's big game problem doesn't happen domestically, especially seeing as he's scored a lot of their most important goals).

The entire France team have flopped in big matches (including the likes of Zidane and Trezeguet, who are both proven big-game players) since they won Euro 2000, which once again, suggests it's something wrong with the system rather than Henry. Can you honestly say Henry and Trezeguet have been a successful partnership for France? And that they've managed to find a system that lets Zidane play in his best position? No.

And if the fact that Henry is a big-game flop is so "proven" then which games exactly has he flopped in, in which the rest of his team-mates have performed adequately?

And this is an argument? The CDMs and France flop because their strikers flop - hard to win games when you don't score.

Shame Oldham just equalised anyway...

 

[Barney Rubble]

And this is an argument? The CDMs and France flop because their strikers flop - hard to win games when you don't score.

When the midfielders do score and the strikers don't, that's the strikers' fault. When no-one does, it's the manager's, especially when the midfield contains the likes of Zidane, Pires, Govou and Vieira, all of whom score their fair share of goals.

 

[Scaly piscine]

When the midfielders do score and the strikers don't, that's the strikers' fault. When no-one does, it's the manager's, especially when the midfield contains the likes of Zidane, Pires, Govou and Vieira, all of whom score their fair share of goals.

Vieira doesn't, never heard of Govou. Also shouldn't Henry who's supposedly god's gift to football in any position on the pitch be creating chances for other players?

 

[Barney Rubble]

Vieira doesn't, never heard of Govou. Also shouldn't Henry who's supposedly god's gift to football in any position on the pitch be creating chances for other players?

Vieira's got 22 goals in the last four and a bit seasons (including 3 in 8 games for Juve so far), which is pretty good considering the role he plays.

Admitting you haven't heard of one of France's first-choice players, who is currently the best player in the French Ligue 1 by some distance, really doesn't help your case.

And Henry has almost as many assists in the last few seasons as he does goals. He's usually to be found streets ahead of everyone else in the Premiership on the "Assists" part of the statistics - but obviously you don't bother looking at them before constructing your arguments. And when did I say he was god's gift to football? All I said was he is clearly a lot better than you're giving him credit for - you don't end up as Premiership top scorer three years running if you're as rubbish as you're making out he is.

 

[Scaly piscine]

And Henry has almost as many assists in the last few seasons as he does goals. He's usually to be found streets ahead of everyone else in the Premiership on the "Assists" part of the statistics - but obviously you don't bother looking at them before constructing your arguments. And when did I say he was god's gift to football? All I said was he is clearly a lot better than you're giving him credit for - you don't end up as Premiership top scorer three years running if you're as rubbish as you're making out he is.

As I keep saying, he's unparallelled against Sunderland and the like, but when it matters in the big games he nearly always flops. If I could be bothered to look at the stats I'm sure he'd average well over a goal a game against the crap sides and significantly less than 0.5 goals a game against the top sides. To be a top striker he has to do it against the big teams just as a player would be judged in cricket.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I had a feeling we'd win this and flop for the rest of the season - 1-0 to the Reds! Get in there!

 

[Tom Halsey]

My word. Didn't touch him. Good job they didn't score from it.

 

[Tom Halsey]

4 minutes?!

 

[Tom Halsey]

Have to say, Rio was absolutely immense today. I've been one of his critics of late, but he and Wes Brown were magnificent 2nd half, as were they all.

 

[steds]

Wow. That was kind of awkward. Like when I talk to myself in the rugby league threads about Saints games.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Lol - shut up Bennett.

 

[Barney Rubble]

As I keep saying, he's unparallelled against Sunderland and the like, but when it matters in the big games he nearly always flops. If I could be bothered to look at the stats I'm sure he'd average well over a goal a game against the crap sides and significantly less than 0.5 goals a game against the top sides. To be a top striker he has to do it against the big teams just as a player would be judged in cricket.

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard - you can't expect him to score exactly the same number of goals in games against big teams as against small teams; it's only logical that he scores less against big teams, everyone does, because they're better.

If every striker in the world played 100 games against Chelsea and 100 games against Sunderland, every single one of them would score more against Sunderland than Chelsea, because Chelsea are a better side! That's like saying if a player goes from the Championship, having averaged a goal a game there, to the Premiership, where he averages a goal every two games, then he's performing badly in the Premiership. Premiership defences are better, so scoring goals is harder.

It's like saying a batsman is crap in big games because he happens to average less against Australia than Bangladesh, and completely ignoring the fact that he still averages 50 against Australia.

 

[Tom Halsey]

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard - you can't expect him to score exactly the same number of goals in games against big teams as against small teams; it's only logical that he scores less against big teams, everyone does, because they're better.

If every striker in the world played 100 games against Chelsea and 100 games against Sunderland, every single one of them would score more against Sunderland than Chelsea, because Chelsea are a better side! That's like saying if a player goes from the Championship, having averaged a goal a game there, to the Premiership, where he averages a goal every two games, then he's performing badly in the Premiership. Premiership defences are better, so scoring goals is harder.

I see your argument, but Henry has a bigger variation between small and big teams than most though.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I see your argument, but Henry has a bigger variation between small and big teams than most though.

Fair enough, but it's not like he never scores against big teams. Even to average 0.3-0.5 against the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea is a good ratio considering the strength of their defences.

 

[Scaly piscine]

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard - you can't expect him to score exactly the same number of goals in games against big teams as against small teams; it's only logical that he scores less against big teams, everyone does, because they're better.

If every striker in the world played 100 games against Chelsea and 100 games against Sunderland, every single one of them would score more against Sunderland than Chelsea, because Chelsea are a better side! That's like saying if a player goes from the Championship, having averaged a goal a game there, to the Premiership, where he averages a goal every two games, then he's performing badly in the Premiership. Premiership defences are better, so scoring goals is harder.

It's like saying a batsman is crap in big games because he happens to average less against Australia than Bangladesh, and completely ignoring the fact that he still averages 50 against Australia.

At what point do I insinuate that I expect him to score exactly the same number of goals against big teams as against crap teams?

If someone (in cricket) averages 100 with the bat against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe but only 30 against Australia and England he'll have a good average overall but you wouldn't say he was a brilliant player would you? But in football with Henry it seems it's different.

 

[Barney Rubble]

At what point do I insinuate that I expect him to score exactly the same number of goals against big teams as in crap teams?

When you implied that it was a bad thing to average over a goal a game against bad sides and less than half a goal a game against good ones - you made it sound like you expected a similar rate of scoring against any team. If that's not what you meant then I apologise, but that's how it sounded.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Fair enough, but it's not like he never scores against big teams. Even to average 0.3-0.5 against the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea is a good ratio considering the strength of their defences.

I'd say it still needs to be 0.5+.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I'd say it still needs to be 0.5+.

Even when the likes of Chelsea only concede at about 0.5? You have high standards!

 

[Kweek]

Marc, ready to revise your statement about van der sar?