**Official** England in The West Indies

[marc71178]

1/ Tried, but been worked out. Short stuff.

Worked out to the extent that in the 2nd Test he scored more runs than any other player?

 

[tooextracool]

Or maybe you could not take a page out of tooextracool's book and actually look at the West Indies' performance with the mentality that there might be a positive or two? The bowling has been a massive improvement from recent times. The England bowlers haven't really bowled better than the West Indians, the English batsmen have simply batted better.

Did tooextracool manage to praise someone? I'm amazed.

i havent praised too many of the WI players in this series(and theres been good reason not to) and im gonna say this once.....
i was very impressed with both best and edwards.both of them IMO have more potential than harmison or hoggard and i really thought that it was not the bowling that has cost the west indies the series...it was the batting.if best and edwards had bowled against the WI on those pitches along with flintoff i think those 3 would have created just about as much havvock as harmison,hoggard and jones did. the difference between the teams was not only the fact that WI batted poorly but also with the management,team spirit,coaching etc. also i think england were a lot higher on confidence than the WI were. personally i was surprised at the kind of wickets that were prepared...i would have gone for flatter wickets that we often see in the west indies instead of these wickets that offered a bit for good batsmen and good bowlers .
they were really not many positives with the batting but smith and sarwan certainly showed a lot of guts(barely any brain though as was shown from some of those shocking shots that they played) and i think that both of them are young and capable of being excellent batsmen.

 

[tooextracool]

He's scored more runs than Chris Read and has been just as solid with the gloves. He has just as much justification for being in the side as Brian Lara.

so chris read is the standard for comparing keepers for u now???a person whose place in the english side is being threatened?get a brain please.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

so chris read is the standard for comparing keepers for u now???a person whose place in the english side is being threatened?get a brain please.

Chris Read is the opposing keeper, and if he's remaining in the team on the basis of his glovework then so be it. However, if Ridley Jacobs is scoring runs and matching him with the gloves, then what basis is there to drop him? Jacobs has been one of the few heartful players in this series.

And I have a brain thank you.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, but Tres is just bad form, Jacobs has most certainly been worked out. You could say Tres has outside off, but hardly any of his dismissals have been there.

Also, Tres has a much higher average, and is a proven higher quality batsman.

EDIT: LE posted before me, that was meant to be a reply to Liam.

Trescothick has been worked out in the past. For one, he has a mirror dismissal in this series. Fine, another example...

Matthew Hayden and Adam Gilchrist.

The West Indies worked them out in the ODI series last year and got them out in the same way several times. Does that mean that they should have been dropped? No. They were scoring a measure of runs.

 

[tooextracool]

Surely one of your most idiotic comments to date. Chris Gayle may not have your beloved technique, but he knows how to score runs and has done so before.

how long does it take to get it into ur thick head that GAYLE CANT BAT WHEN THE BALL SEAMS A BIT?????good god look at half of his dismissals on wickets that do a little bit and ud see that he is in no position to play any sort of shot!how many failures does he need to make before u can finally admit that he just plain sucks!!

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk Wavell Hinds doesn't have the technique either, but it's more of a mental issue with him. Watch how he's been dismissed largely in his career and you'll see (well maybe not you...). He was good enough to score back-to-back centuries against Australia, but isn't mentally strong enough to keep it up against other teams.[/B]

back to back centuries in ODIs is different from tests. for me both gayle and hinds are good one day players but their awful technique prevents them from playing on pitches that offer something for the bowlers.further more those centuries came on flat wickets and after he had failed in almost every innings against the australians in the test series!

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk Clearly you have not watched any of the cricket to date. Ask Lucky Eddie. He should tell you that Corey Collymore has bowled about as well as you can and go wicketless in two Tests and Pedro Collins certainly hasn't been the worst either. [/B]

so what some stupid duck says is true???collymore is by no means a bad bowler no doubt but i dont think he has the pace or ability to get wickets against the good teams as his performances in his entire career have shown

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Collymore has been a good bowler but isnt great. As Boycott said, his 'mum' would love to bat against him.

The Boycott must have gotten his batting talent from his mum. Either that or he's not watching the cricket.

Batting wise, it has been totally sick batting and they got clobbered in South Africa as well..

The batting was not clobbered in South Africa. We scored eight centuries in four Tests. That's as many as all the South Africans bar Kallis.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

how long does it take to get it into ur thick head that GAYLE CANT BAT WHEN THE BALL SEAMS A BIT?????good god look at half of his dismissals on wickets that do a little bit and ud see that he is in no position to play any sort of shot!how many failures does he need to make before u can finally admit that he just plain sucks!!

I have not insulted you in this manner to date and don't intend to. There is no place for that at Cricket Web and I refuse to even read the remainder of your comment on that basis.

 

[luckyeddie]

so chris read is the standard for comparing keepers for u now???a person whose place in the english side is being threatened?get a brain please.

Chris Read is not a bad standard to use as far as judging wicket-keepers is concerned, because he is a very good wicket-keeper indeed. His problem is that he doesn't make enough of a contribution with the bat.

Ridley Jacobs has scored as many runs as anyone in the West Indies side this spring, and he's kept tidily too. Why on earth would his place be under threat, especially when there is no obvious replacement?

The 'get a brain' comment is unnecessary. Liam produces much thoughtful work for Cricket Web, and his contributions and opinions are highly valued.

 

[tooextracool]

OK so explain his very good average against them in 2001, in Sri Lanka.

And sorry, my mistake, Edgebaston, not Trent Bridge.

2 reasons
1. his weakness had not yet been figured out yet
2. his weakness is against good quality pace bowling on pitches that offer a bit for the fast bowlers

 

[tooextracool]

Sorry. All performances at the Oval don't count. It's the greatest batting strip in the world when Trescothick's scoring against South Africa. How did SH take those second-innings wickets? Oh yes. Bad batting.

Funnily enough, it's also the best bowling strip in the world when Devon Malcolm's rewriting the history books with the ball - also against South Africa.

Yes, people are stupid - and the older I get, the more stupid they become.

***** MOD EDIT: That was out of order and wont be tolerated here, insulting CW memebrs on the boards is not on and if there has to be any of that do it over e-mail or some other private disscusion method! *****

 

[tooextracool]

It would be a nice thought, but would an eleven such as the following (to use a rather crude example) give England any more problems at all?? I doubt it..

1. X Marshall
2. Devon Smith
3. B Lara
4. I Jan
5. R Sarwan
6. G Breese
7. O Banks
8. Untried wicketkeeper?
9. R Rampaul
10. T Best
11. F Edwards

To be honest, its like going from an out of form good side to a mediocre side altogether....

im gonna keep my mouth **** on the current WI side being an out of form one(bar lara) and say that i would prefer to have a bunch of players some who may not do well now but will slowly improve instead of having a bunch of players who have been tried tested and failed on innumerable occasions as was the case with hinds,ganga,gayle,sanford etc.
personally i think had WI lost with that side with the same margin as they will now they wouldnt have been so dejected as they are now knowing that some of these young players at least have a future unlike some of the players now.

 

[Pratters]

The Boycott must have gotten his batting talent from his mum. Either that or he's not watching the cricket.

What he and I mean is Collymore is an average bowler.. he is a good stock bowler but not a great bowler as such. Like you wouldnt compare him to a past great or some one haing great talent like say Best or Edwards.. so he is not very threatening..


The batting was not clobbered in South Africa. We scored eight centuries in four Tests. That's as many as all the South Africans bar Kallis.

The batsmen have played too poorly on a regular basis and thats the point basically

 

[luckyeddie]

Good GOD you're stupider than i thought u were. did u know that pitches disintegrate as the days pass??SA made 484 on the same pitch with hershell gibbs scoring 183 in the first innings...yet in the 2nd innings bicknell got 4 wickets as tehy collapsed to 229.....what kinda pitch do u think it had become you stupid idiot???dont forget that that the oval being trescothicks home ground also has an influence on his performances there.

I think you totally missed the point - I'm not surprised.

And now you've totally lost the plot - again, I'm not surprised.

Are there any other Cricket Web staff members you would like to invite to get a brain or call a stupid idiot? I'm sure there are one or two you haven't had a go at yet, but I'm confident that you will rectify that matter soon.

Oh, check your facts and engage your own brain. Some people only open their mouths to change feet. Marcus Trescothick is a Somerset player, therefore his home ground is Taunton.

Have a nice day.

 

[tooextracool]

1. Trescothick is in terrible nick - although yesterday the feet started to move really well and he looked a much better player. The nonsense about 'everyone's worked him out' is just that. Like many batsmen, his weakness is also his strength. Sure he gets out flashing, but that's where he gets his runs anyway.

yep certainly helped him in australia didnt it?

Originally posted by luckyeddie 9. Hoggard - for me, he has been even more of a revelation than Harmison on this tour, because he does two jobs and does them both well. Bowling with the new ball he probes away, a fine, attacking bowler. Later, he comes back with the old ball and is capable of bowling long spells economically. If you go in with four seamers, it's what you need. As for the idiot who dismissed his hat-trick saying that it was due to the pitch, I really hope the same happens to you one day and your team-mates say 'No, you can't have the match ball. It was too easy. The pitch helped.' [/B]

first of all no one said that his wickets were because the pitch helped. for the benefit of someone who hadnt seen the game and had only read abt it on cricinfo it was a simple question of whether or not he actually bowled well to get the hatrick or whether the pitch helped that is all. in all of his career we were used to seeing hoggard being a demon in swinging conditions(nz and eng) and then watching him fail miserably in SL and australia. unforunately some people dont have the common sense to read posts properly without jumping to their own assumptions of what someone has said.

 

[tooextracool]

i apologise for having made any comments that have insulted anyone here. i simply did not like the insulting tone of LE posts against me because i have the right to express my opinion just as much as u do.

 

[luckyeddie]

yep certainly helped him in australia didnt it?



first of all no one said that his wickets were because the pitch helped. for the benefit of someone who hadnt seen the game and had only read abt it on cricinfo it was a simple question of whether or not he actually bowled well to get the hatrick or whether the pitch helped that is all. in all of his career we were used to seeing hoggard being a demon in swinging conditions(nz and eng) and then watching him fail miserably in SL and australia. unforunately some people dont have the common sense to read posts properly without jumping to their own assumptions of what someone has said.

The origiinal quote....

btw was the ball seaming around all over the place when hoggard was bowling?its hard to imagine hoggard taking a hatrick unless it was.

The implication seems plain enough - not much of an assumption required really.

Anyway, I cannot accuse you of being inconsistent. It seems that you are very fond of insulting people - you seem to have this uncannny knack of including one epithet per post, usually questioning someone's intelligence. That tends to be the desperate final resort of one who has lost the debate.

 

[tooextracool]

The origiinal quote....

btw was the ball seaming around all over the place when hoggard was bowling?its hard to imagine hoggard taking a hatrick unless it was.

The implication seems plain enough - not much of an assumption required really.

dont think so. anybody who had watched hoggards performances in australia and SL would definetly be skeptical to say the least of any good performance that he made after unless of course he had seen his bowling performance which i hadnt. it seem that u couldnt answer a simple question(which is what it was) without insulting someone elses intelligence.

Originally posted by luckyeddie Anyway, I cannot accuse you of being inconsistent. It seems that you are very fond of insulting people - you seem to have this uncannny knack of including one epithet per post, usually questioning someone's intelligence. That tends to be the desperate final resort of one who has lost the debate. [/B]

oh i havent lost this debate....

 

[marc71178]

dont forget that that the oval being trescothicks home ground also has an influence on his performances there.

I thought I'd highlight this as an example of something being posted by someone who seems to take great delight in calling lots of people stupid.

 

[marc71178]

i apologise for having made any comments that have insulted anyone here. i simply did not like the insulting tone of LE posts against me because i have the right to express my opinion just as much as u do.

The difference being that most people post their opinions in a civil and non-insulting manner.