**Official** England in The West Indies

[Tom Halsey]

Agree again, he is just in a bad trot of form.

 

[luckyeddie]

You know, I was on my sabbatical when this thread started, and I've just decided that I ought to read what people thought before the series started.

My guesses were

a) That the usual suspects would be calling for SH's head before the tour started, saying that he would get murdered (metaphorically speaking)

b) The pitches would be devoid of life/batsman's paradise

c) It would be tough and/or close

d) Most of the comments would turn out to be either total rubbish or just plain wrong.

Guess what?

4/4

 

[Tom Halsey]

Lol. Did people say that Tres was a class batsman before the series too?

 

[Langeveldt]

Lol. Did people say that Tres was a class batsman before the series too?

Of course, but batsmen dont constantly stay class for all their career.... only the greatest do...

 

[Sehwag309]

Playing for India in Pakistan

Who are you refering too?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It would be a nice thought, but would an eleven such as the following (to use a rather crude example) give England any more problems at all?? I doubt it..

1. X Marshall
2. Devon Smith
3. B Lara
4. I Jan
5. R Sarwan
6. G Breese
7. O Banks
8. Untried wicketkeeper?
9. R Rampaul
10. T Best
11. F Edwards

To be honest, its like going from an out of form good side to a mediocre side altogether....

1/ What has Jacobs done wrong? He's been one of the few triers in this series.

2/ Collymore has bowled his heart out and couldn't possibly be any more unlucky. When he finally does get the edge it drops short of slip or is dropped at slip.

3/ Devon Smith will miss 3 weeks.

 

[Tom Halsey]

1/ What has Jacobs done wrong? He's been one of the few triers in this series.

2/ Collymore has bowled his heart out and couldn't possibly be any more unlucky. When he finally does get the edge it drops short of slip or is dropped at slip.

3/ Devon Smith will miss 3 weeks.

1/ Tried, but been worked out. Short stuff.

2/ Very true, Hoggard is the only one as unlucky.

3/ Yes.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

West indies are developing a nasty of habit of making their opposition look like world beaters.
SA looked like gods agaisnt them and now englands crappy trundlers look like stars.

The only relevation of this tour has been the windies embaressing mediocrity.

Or maybe you could not take a page out of tooextracool's book and actually look at the West Indies' performance with the mentality that there might be a positive or two? The bowling has been a massive improvement from recent times. The England bowlers haven't really bowled better than the West Indians, the English batsmen have simply batted better.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Did tooextracool manage to praise someone? I'm amazed.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

1/ Tried, but been worked out. Short stuff.

He's scored more runs than Chris Read and has been just as solid with the gloves. He has just as much justification for being in the side as Brian Lara.

 

[Tom Halsey]

True, but neither have exactly been amazing with the bat this series. I would also rate Chris Read a better 'keeper. Not disputing that Ridley would normally be better with the bat though.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

8. Giles got thrashed around the park at Kingston yet came back and took the vital wickets of Smith and Hinds who were thrapsing England all round the island, let alone all round the park at the time. Without those two wickets, England might actually be behind in the series, let alone 3-0 up. They were that vital. In the last two tests he's been an irrelevance with the ball but once again vital with the bat.

That said, Shivnarine Chanderpaul could have gotten those wickets considering the shots that were played. I've seen just about all of Giles' overs in the series to date and he hasn't bowled a wicket-taking delivery as yet.

 

[Swervy]

Or maybe you could not take a page out of tooextracool's book and actually look at the West Indies' performance with the mentality that there might be a positive or two? The bowling has been a massive improvement from recent times. The England bowlers haven't really bowled better than the West Indians, the English batsmen have simply batted better.

and this in a series where I think England havent batted that well to be honest,not like they can do.

yes, I have been pleasantly surprised by WI's bowling, but I cannot see how it has even been close to that of Englands quality wise.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

True, but neither have exactly been amazing with the bat this series. I would also rate Chris Read a better 'keeper. Not disputing that Ridley would normally be better with the bat though.

At the moment its been pretty even with the gloves though.

Regarding his batting, did you see Jacobs' innings of 40 and 70 at the Queen's Park Oval? Did you see the innings of the other ten batsmen? In the context of the series, we need more batsmen with the outlook of Jacobs. If I'm not mistaken, he was the highest averaging (series) West Indian who played in that last Test.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yes, he was originally a thorn. But all of his most recent dismissals have been the short pitched stuff.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hahaha good joke. if a team of gayle and w and r hinds end up being the best in the world the standard of cricket would indeed be the lowest ever since the game began. theyve got 1 legendary batsman, 1 who can become a pretty good batsman and 1 who has been a relatively decent batsman for them. 2 decent bowlers who could have a great future but the others would struggle to make it onto the bangladesh side.

Surely one of your most idiotic comments to date. Chris Gayle may not have your beloved technique, but he knows how to score runs and has done so before. Wavell Hinds doesn't have the technique either, but it's more of a mental issue with him. Watch how he's been dismissed largely in his career and you'll see (well maybe not you...). He was good enough to score back-to-back centuries against Australia, but isn't mentally strong enough to keep it up against other teams.

I must say I'm shocked at your displeasure with Hinds. Despite his failures in his last 3 innings, he's shown good technique and that's your favourite ranting point.

Clearly you have not watched any of the cricket to date. Ask Lucky Eddie. He should tell you that Corey Collymore has bowled about as well as you can and go wicketless in two Tests and Pedro Collins certainly hasn't been the worst either.

I just don't see where the bowling comes under criticism at this point. Aside from Sanford, it's been quite impressive, especially for a West Indies team.

jimmy adams was the luckiest captain....how he managed to avoid defeat against zimbabwe or pakistan at home completely baffles me let alone how he won those series

Let's look at it...

Zimbabwe...

1st Test - brilliant bowling, not only from Walsh and Ambrose, but by King and Rose too. We earned that victory.

2nd Test - Brilliant captain's knock by Adams and maturity at the other end by Rose. We earned that victory.

Pakistan...

1st and 2nd Test - Brilliant batting by Wavell Hinds and rain.

3rd Test - Poor umpiring yes, but attrocious fielding by the Pakistanis. They should have won it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, he was originally a thorn. But all of his most recent dismissals have been the short pitched stuff.

I say sack him and Trescothick then.

 

[luckyeddie]

I've been quite impressed with most of the West Indian bowling.

I think the difference between the two sides has been very little. If you measure it in distance, then that distance would be just 6 inches.

However, it's the most important 6 inches of all (stop snickering).

Between the ears. It's been a mental thing. England have made all the right decisions at the right time. Call it good captaincy, inspiration, luck, pressure. I don't know.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yes, but Tres is just bad form, Jacobs has most certainly been worked out. You could say Tres has outside off, but hardly any of his dismissals have been there.

Also, Tres has a much higher average, and is a proven higher quality batsman.

EDIT: LE posted before me, that was meant to be a reply to Liam.

 

[Pratters]

I am too busy with exams just 10 days away but had to put my thoughts after the various perceptions of people on whats wrong/right..

The difference between the two sides is not the bowling or batting or the mental toughness.. its just the selection policies..

England are persisting with the right players which has been paying them off..

Windies have some good players.. no one has ever doubter Chanderpaul or Sarwan not to be test class... but these players are playing as if they will always remain in the team without any seriousness..

On the other hand, the other batsmen dont know if this will be their last test.. Its always better to persist with the 'right' players..

Collymore has been a good bowler but isnt great. As Boycott said, his 'mum' would love to bat against him. Edwards n Best have been good talents and they could have shown like Harmison or Jones had the team 'looked like a team'

Batting wise, it has been totally sick batting and they got clobbered in South Africa as well. Its about time to chose the players who are 'serious' and devoted rather than the players who look talented. Dillon is one player I would NEVER drop.

Talent doesnt make a team.. else Pakistan would never lose any test ever.