**Official** England in The West Indies

[tooextracool]

No. But would you agree Ridley Jacobs is? I believe Liam was talking about his dear West Indies.

oops didnt read it carefully.sry

"Basically, this amounts to two proven Test-batsman, two who have taken big strides toward being proven, one all-time great batsman, no genuine all-rounder , one proven gritty wicketkeeper with the bat and solid with the gloves, and no proven bowlers."

the only proven test batsman i see is chanderpaul, lara being the great one of course.

chris gayle will probably never be a proven batsman because his technique will not get him anywhere on seaming wickets. his temperament is also something he needs to work on because at times he seems to want to hit every ball out of the park.
sarwan certainly has struggled outside of home and has been incredibly inconsistent even at home.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sarwan has crossed 50 every 3-4 innings at home and every 3 innings away. That's not too bad. His actual average of innings per 50+ is 3.27 and Lara's is 2.68.

Re: Chris Gayle. He has some technical deficiencies yes, but it surely must count for something that he's improved leaps and bounds in recent times and he really is working on his game. Regardless of whether he gets the runs with a polka or a total lack of foot movement, the fact is that he's getting them and not giving very many chances in the process.

 

[Craig]

So there goes Richard's chanceless innings regarding Gayle.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think England should set a deep midwicket in the ODIs when Ricardo Powell bats and the same in Tests. If selected.

I think it may work in Tests, but he'll get away with it in ODIs. For one I can't see stretching past the convention to put a man at deep midwicket within the first 15 and if Powell bats at 3 (where he should IMO), he'll likely get a knock within the first 15.

Keep in mind that Powell is also quite adept at going aerial down the ground and over long on. He's also a very sweet driver of the ball. All of that said, Dwayne Smith (and then Ryan Hinds IMO) has to fail first for him to get in. Either that or injury...

 

[PY]

Basically, this amounts to two proven Test-batsman, two everyone would love to think are proven, one supposed all-rounder who has basically had one good series with the bat, one totally unproven wicketkeeper with the bat, and no proven bowlers unless the conditions suit spin.

I'm interested to know who are the proven batsman and who are the ones who people think are proven?

Trescothick : 3175 runs @ 42.90
Vaughan : 3118 runs @ 46.53
Hussain : 5430 runs @ 36.68
Thorpe : 5552 runs @ 42.06

Honest question.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm sure that Thorpe and Hussain are the proven batsmen, so I suppose that Trescothick and Vaughan are the two who people think are proven. I myself am not convinced on Vaughan as yet.

 

[tooextracool]

I'm sure that Thorpe and Hussain are the proven batsmen, so I suppose that Trescothick and Vaughan are the two who people think are proven. I myself am not convinced on Vaughan as yet.

im more convinced of vaughan than i am of trescothick. vaughan has scored runs against the best team in the world in australia while trescothick hasnt. vaughan scored a brilliant century against the sri lankans in the 2nd test that saved the match for them. further more i think he is right up there in terms of being technically correct along with sachin,lara and kallis.
however trescothick has struggled everywhere except at the oval where he scored that massive 214 along with a couple of breezy half centuries in the ODI series against the south africans. he still doesnt seem to have worked out how to play those balls just outside off stump. im afraid that his temperament has gotten worse than what it was when he first started; i still remember the way he and atherton saw a long spell of walsh and ambrose off in england and then took rose and mclean to the cleaners.for now he is just an"oval performer" in my book

 

[Tom Halsey]

What?!?

He has performed everywhere he has played, except Australia.

 

[tooextracool]

no he has failed against quality bowling attacks...both series against australia and then against south africa. the number of times ive seen him get 30 odd and get out is innumerable and if he wants his place to be proven then hes gonna hafta score big in places other than the oval!!

 

[Richard]

im more convinced of vaughan than i am of trescothick. vaughan has scored runs against the best team in the world in australia while trescothick hasnt. vaughan scored a brilliant century against the sri lankans in the 2nd test that saved the match for them. further more i think he is right up there in terms of being technically correct along with sachin,lara and kallis.
however trescothick has struggled everywhere except at the oval where he scored that massive 214 along with a couple of breezy half centuries in the ODI series against the south africans. he still doesnt seem to have worked out how to play those balls just outside off stump. im afraid that his temperament has gotten worse than what it was when he first started; i still remember the way he and atherton saw a long spell of walsh and ambrose off in england and then took rose and mclean to the cleaners.for now he is just an"oval performer" in my book

He also scored twin 50s at The Oval in 2002 and 55 and 24 in 2001. Plus a 71 in 2000 where he was dropped on 7.
As he was dropped on 3 in that very innings where he'd seen off Ambrose and Walsh, I don't really see how he deserves much credit for that.
Trescothick has never performed very much in Test-cricket. He's just had a hell of a lot of luck. For a longish period (The Ashes 2002\03 and most of summer 2003) he failed despite this luck. Then he scored 217 and 69* (dropped on 1) at The Oval and had a series against Bangladesh around the corner.

 

[Richard]

im more convinced of vaughan than i am of trescothick. vaughan has scored runs against the best team in the world in australia while trescothick hasnt. vaughan scored a brilliant century against the sri lankans in the 2nd test that saved the match for them. further more i think he is right up there in terms of being technically correct along with sachin,lara and kallis.

Vaughan has never convinced me when opeing the batting. He's scored 3 massive centuries (v India, Australia and Australia) and done basically sod-all besides, apart from that Kandy Test.
His first-chance scores when opening have been littered with 20s and 30s and no 70s and 80s.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I believe the phrase is "Vice Chancellor's XI go squish".

70 all out - Hoggard 3/10, Giles 3/23, Jones 3/3.

On the plus side, saves you from doing the day 3 report, eh, Liam?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Prediction for First Test XI

ME Trescothick
*MP Vaughan
N Hussain
PD Collingwood
GP Thorpe/AJ Strauss
A Flintoff
+CMW Read
AF Giles
SP Jones
MJ Hoggard
SJ Harmison

 

[twctopcat]

My prediction: Harmison and Jones to be the greatest bowling partnership since Ambrose and Walsh, seriously .

 

[Tom Halsey]

Harmy will do well this series.

Jones it remains to be seen, but he appears in good form.

 

[badgerhair]

Vaughan has never convinced me when opeing the batting. He's scored 3 massive centuries (v India, Australia and Australia) and done basically sod-all besides, apart from that Kandy Test.
His first-chance scores when opening have been littered with 20s and 30s and no 70s and 80s.

So which of the 195 and 197 against India was the massive one, and which wasn't?

And the 145 against Aus (presuming the 177 and 183 to be the massive ones) and the 156 against South Africa were 20s and 30s, or were they "sod all" too?

Your carping opinions about the England players might have more credibility if they were based on fact, you kow.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[tooextracool]

So which of the 195 and 197 against India was the massive one, and which wasn't?

And the 145 against Aus (presuming the 177 and 183 to be the massive ones) and the 156 against South Africa were 20s and 30s, or were they "sod all" too?

Your carping opinions about the England players might have more credibility if they were based on fact, you kow.

Cheers,

Mike

absolutely right....richard u seem to have forgotten many of his finer knocks.at the moment he has 10 100s and 8 50s, more 100s than 50s, isnt that a hallmark of a great player?one who converts those 50s into not just 100s but big ones as most of his 100s have been.

His first-chance scores when opening have been littered with 20s and 30s and no 70s and 80s.

umm and why exactly would u want 70s and 80s??if one of ur top order batsmen doesnt go on to score a 100 then how are u going to win a test match?that was precisely the problem with england both against the australians and south africans, batsmen like butcher,hussain,white and stewart kept getting scores of 80 odd when they were set and thats why we never won either of those series. trescothick it seems kept getting 30 odd before his traditional knick to the slips

 

[Craig]

What?!?

He has performed everywhere he has played, except Australia.

Not in NZ.

 

[Richard]

Or in Pakistan.

 

[Richard]

Harmy will do well this series.

Jones it remains to be seen, but he appears in good form.

"Will" is a dangerous word in cricket.