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***Official*** England in Sri Lanka 2012

Cricketismylife

U19 12th Man
That's just pure rubbish. You're cornered but still not prepared to accept the truth, so attempt to buy more time by deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

Over the four Tests to date, Cook, Trott, Prior and even Strauss to a certain extent have been pretty decent, made some significant contributions and have at times looked technically and temperamentally up to the challenge of scoring runs in these conditions. This is actually reflected in their averages which, while not being anything to write home about, are certainly not a complete embarrassment.

Bell and Pietersen, on the other hand, have looked totally out of their depth pretty much throughout. Which is why they are averaging in the teens. They have not contributed a damn thing, and their performances have been so disgusting that it makes my blood boil to see people defend their mediocrity on the grounds that there are no better alternatives.

Really? No one who can maybe average 20+, or even - dare I say it -, 25+, as opposed to what Bell and Pietersen are currently averaging? If you have watched some of the young English batsmen in the county scene and the Lions and genuinely believe that then there is a word for stupidity of the magnitude you would be displaying in professing that opinion and it is not one that is generally bandied about in polite company.

"All of them" - your blatant misrepresentation - means let's fold our arms and fiddle about at the margins with a shifting cast of Boparas, Patels, Morgans, Bresnans and others in the ancillary batting positions, when it is obvious to anyone but an utter moron from what we have seen on these tours in which positions England are suffering the most and what needs to be done to make the pain go away.

I hate mediocrity and it pains me deeply that anyone would wish continuing mediocrity on the team I support. If you are happy with batsmen in the critical positions 4 and 5 who can't be counted on to see off a spell from the opposition's leading spin bowler at any point in any match in the SC then you must have a different definition of what constitutes Test standard batsmanship than I do. Bell and KP must go and the moment can't come soon enough!
You are probably the most entertaining poster on these boards. Even though you are quite controversial, I think you have to have some credit for predicting the complete and utter failiure of Bell and Pietersen. I may have predicted a below par performace from them, but I definittely didnt predict this complete joke of a performance. In the same way, I would have said that you were going too far in asking for these 2 to be dropped. However, if they both fail again in the next test match, I may have to agree with you about them missing out when England go to India. For the record, I dont expect them to do too well against South Africa, but like most posters here I don't think there are many batsman anywhere that will fare well against Steyn Morkel and Philander.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
When did he predict Bell and KP to fail? Was it before the tour against Pakistan or before this match?

If it was just before this Test, I'll say it again, Bell was England's second highest scorer for the match..
 

amanuensis

U19 12th Man
When did he predict Bell and KP to fail? Was it before the tour against Pakistan or before this match?

If it was just before this Test, I'll say it again, Bell was England's second highest scorer for the match..
I'm not sure he was even registered on this website when the series against Pakistan started. He strikes me as a pretty common internet phenomenon - someone who loves to rant about particular players whom he dislikes. I've no doubt he'll go awol the moment Bell produces a really good innings, or he'll do his best to belittle it. Of course he'll be here in a flash whenever the bloke fails.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
The problem with the "let's drop Bell and KP argument" is who are you replacing them with? Ravi Bopara? Eoin Morgan? Please.

Sometimes your best just isn't good enough. The England top 6 has been remarkably settled for the last 6 years because the blokes occupying it are the best men for the job. England have absolutely atrocious batting depth - we've got a lot of promising youngsters and older pros hitting their peaks in the bowling department, which promotes depth because a guy like Woakes needs to put in superhuman performances to be considered for selection, but sadly we don't have the luxury of that in the batting department. Maybe it's down to the conditions players face in England, but with the exception of Trescothick, I can't think of anyone who's just consistently putting up great numbers in County Cricket. The last batsman to do such a thing was Jonathan Trott - all the players we've tried at number 6 since Collingwood's retirement are there because of perceived potential or talent rather than performance. There is absolutely no-one in the County Championship who can honestly point to their career First Class numbers and say "I really ought to have played more Tests than I have". The only potential exception to this at the moment is James Taylor - the rest of the batsmen in the County game are all low-mid 40s much of a muchness.

Until players actually emerge that score runs at a volume where they cannot be ignored, then England are best served sticking with what they've got. If that's not good enough to win Tests on the subcontinent, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
 

amanuensis

U19 12th Man
The problem with the "let's drop Bell and KP argument" is who are you replacing them with? Ravi Bopara? Eoin Morgan? Please.

Sometimes your best just isn't good enough. The England top 6 has been remarkably settled for the last 6 years because the blokes occupying it are the best men for the job. England have absolutely atrocious batting depth - we've got a lot of promising youngsters and older pros hitting their peaks in the bowling department, which promotes depth because a guy like Woakes needs to put in superhuman performances to be considered for selection, but sadly we don't have the luxury of that in the batting department. Maybe it's down to the conditions players face in England, but with the exception of Trescothick, I can't think of anyone who's just consistently putting up great numbers in County Cricket. The last batsman to do such a thing was Jonathan Trott - all the players we've tried at number 6 since Collingwood's retirement are there because of perceived potential or talent rather than performance. There is absolutely no-one in the County Championship who can honestly point to their career First Class numbers and say "I really ought to have played more Tests than I have". The only potential exception to this at the moment is James Taylor - the rest of the batsmen in the County game are all low-mid 40s much of a muchness.

Until players actually emerge that score runs at a volume where they cannot be ignored, then England are best served sticking with what they've got. If that's not good enough to win Tests on the subcontinent, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
Given that they only play about a quarter of their career tests in Asia, it strikes me as utterly perverse to fixate on their performance there. It would be great for them to be competitive in that part of the world, but why develop a "final frontier mentality"?
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I'm not sure he was even registered on this website when the series against Pakistan started. He strikes me as a pretty common internet phenomenon - someone who loves to rant about particular players whom he dislikes. I've no doubt he'll go awol the moment Bell produces a really good innings, or he'll do his best to belittle it. Of course he'll be here in a flash whenever the bloke fails.
Yeah and even when he doesn't fail (in the context of the match).
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If he hadn't had that bad finger injury I think there's a chance Stokes would have been not far off selection. Partly because he bowls, and he bowls properly as opposed to being a glorified one-day bowler who has a few quiet overs somewhere. I don't think he'd have had much idea against Ajmal mind.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Given that they only play about a quarter of their career tests in Asia, it strikes me as utterly perverse to fixate on their performance there. It would be great for them to be competitive in that part of the world, but why develop a "final frontier mentality"?
Can open. Worms everywhere. :D
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
If he hadn't had that bad finger injury I think there's a chance Stokes would have been not far off selection. Partly because he bowls, and he bowls properly as opposed to being a glorified one-day bowler who has a few quiet overs somewhere. I don't think he'd have had much idea against Ajmal mind.
Come off it.

He's taken 28 wickets in 28 games and bowls less than 10 overs a match.

Not to mention going at 4 and a half an over.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
When did he predict Bell and KP to fail? Was it before the tour against Pakistan or before this match?

If it was just before this Test, I'll say it again, Bell was England's second highest scorer for the match..
After the first Test in Pakistan; on this site anyway.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
After the first Test in Pakistan; on this site anyway.
Oh okay then. Still, I wouldn't expect that the performances against Pakistan in the UAE would necessarily have too much of a barring on the performances against Sri Lanka in SL.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Nice to see that the pollyanna post-mortem is honing in on the key talking points with laser-like precision:

TP1. Debutant Samit Patel - is he worth his place in the team?
TP2. Monty's match-losing fielding - can it be allowed to continue?

Could I suggest, not an additional talking point - who am I to make so bold? -, but a post-debate vote of thanks to the real heroes of the hour, along the following lines:

"Three cheers for our middle order stalwarts Ian Bell and Kevin Pietersen. Without their tough runs - in first and second innings respectively -, this disappointing defeat.... would have been even worse!"

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Obviously Herath must be a chucker
You are probably the most entertaining poster on these boards. Even though you are quite controversial, I think you have to have some credit for predicting the complete and utter failiure of Bell and Pietersen. I may have predicted a below par performace from them, but I definittely didnt predict this complete joke of a performance. In the same way, I would have said that you were going too far in asking for these 2 to be dropped. However, if they both fail again in the next test match, I may have to agree with you about them missing out when England go to India.
This. Completely agree with the above

When did he predict Bell and KP to fail? Was it before the tour against Pakistan or before this match?

If it was just before this Test, I'll say it again, Bell was England's second highest scorer for the match..
After (or during) the first test against Pakistan

Oh okay then. Still, I wouldn't expect that the performances against Pakistan in the UAE would necessarily have too much of a barring on the performances against Sri Lanka in SL.
You missed his main point which he has been making since the beginning of the Pak series. He has said that KP and Bell will be found out against decent test standard well rounded attacks especially spin bowling in the SC.

Marc chiming in with misleading stats shocker.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
After the first Test in Pakistan; on this site anyway.
That's correct. I first posted on 22 Jan 2012, immediately after the First Test in the UAE. I said that Bell would average less than 20 in the series to general incredulity.

Almost amazing to recall now, but that was the apogee of the false adulation for Bell, not just as a world class batsman - which I inconveniently pointed out that he has never been, at any point in his career -, but as a nailed on fixture in any credible top 10 list, with some lunatics even making him number one. :laugh:

For instance, "Marcuss" responded to my initial posts with the following insightful evaluation of the sherminator: "Been the best batsman in the world for just over a year tbh". marc71178 accused me of spouting "utter codswallop". GingerFurball described my comments as "stupid" and when I wrote that "For me Bell against an attack like this is a 15-20 average man" and made my famous prediction that he would average less than 20 for the rest of the series - i.e. that, not even including his First Test failure, he would continue to perform just as cluelessly -, the same poster did that juvenile thing which some regular posters on this site have a habit of doing of posting some moronic clip from a US TV programme in order to ridicule the guy he is arguing against. In this case it was of a guy wearing a stethoscope - presumably a doctor, then ;-) - spitting out a cup of coffee or whatever.

Other annoying clips and still images were posted by a variety of clueless posters to ridicule me - because of course they could not refute my logic. The clips - and no doubt the programmes from which they were extracted - are now a distant memory for most, but my correct predictions are still there for anyone to check starting on page 214 of the UAE series thread.

Jacknife described my comments as "gash", to which I responded: "I look forward to reading a lot of "gash" from you and other subscribers to the myth of Bell as a top class bat when this series is over and as I predict he ends up with a lower average than any of the specialist batsmen, Prior, Broad and Swann also". Pretty cool, eh - although I unaccountably left out Anderson from my list!

Even in ancillary matters I was pretty much spot on. For instance I correctly predicted that it was not only Ajmal, but also Gul who would be giving Bell fits in the UAE series, to which a genius named amanuensis - who has I see now re-emerged from the woodwork, presumably in the hope that we've forgotten his previous stupidities - replied "Gul isn't a particularly good test bowler. His strength lies in limited overs cricket, so I don't see the relevance of your argument". Our friend the Furball weighed in with his usual insightfulness "he's a fairly average Test bowler". That worked out well for you guys, didn't it? I mean, Gul only took a goodly number of England top order wickets at critical moments in the series at a low twenties average and with a healthy strike rate, and he only looked, after Broad, the most penetrating pace bowler on view? (Not that I didn't slap them down at the time: "As for the person who dismissed Gul as merely an ODI bowler, mate, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Gul is one of the very best in the world at exploiting these sorts of conditions in Tests....." etc)

Pietersen I gave as much stick as Bell right from the get go, pointing out that all his technical tinkerings have meant that he fundamentally does not any longer know how to go about scoring runs against good quality bowling, that he is basically washed up both mentally and seemingly technically, and that this mixture of technical and mental problems is brought into focus even more by decent slow bowling on SC-type surfaces, with the net result that he - who, unlike Bell, had at least once been a very good player - was now in the same sub-20 average bracket.

So you guys have to deal with someone who after the very first Test in the UAE correctly predicted that both Bell and Pietersen would average less than 20 in the remainder of that series and would if picked for the SL Tests continue to perform miserably, and who on that basis was calling for them to be replaced even then. How have I done?

It seems rather well, no? Everything I wrote about those two has since come true. Whenever I have been wrong about some detail I - unlike some on this forum - have been happy to hold my hands up and own up to it, because for me it's not about ego or being right all the time; it's rather about finding out the truth and coming to terms with it no matter how tough it is or how much it militates against one's own affections or affiliations.

Would that others on these boards shared my ideals and stopped clinging to old affections which have no basis in logic or current performance.
 

Flem274*

123/5
That's correct. I first posted on 22 Jan 2012, immediately after the First Test in the UAE. I said that Bell would average less than 20 in the series to general incredulity.

Almost amazing to recall now, but that was the apogee of the false adulation for Bell, not just as a world class batsman - which I inconveniently pointed out that he has never been, at any point in his career -, but as a nailed on fixture in any credible top 10 list, with some lunatics even making him number one. :laugh:

For instance, "Marcuss" responded to my initial posts with the following insightful evaluation of the sherminator: "Been the best batsman in the world for just over a year tbh". marc71178 accused me of spouting "utter codswallop". GingerFurball described my comments as "stupid" and when I wrote that "For me Bell against an attack like this is a 15-20 average man" and made my famous prediction that he would average less than 20 for the rest of the series - i.e. that, not even including his First Test failure, he would continue to perform just as cluelessly -, the same poster did that juvenile thing which some regular posters on this site have a habit of doing of posting some moronic clip from a US TV programme in order to ridicule the guy he is arguing against. In this case it was of a guy wearing a stethoscope - presumably a doctor, then ;-) - spitting out a cup of coffee or whatever.

Other annoying clips and still images were posted by a variety of clueless posters to ridicule me - because of course they could not refute my logic. The clips - and no doubt the programmes from which they were extracted - are now a distant memory for most, but my correct predictions are still there for anyone to check starting on page 214 of the UAE series thread.

Jacknife described my comments as "gash", to which I responded: "I look forward to reading a lot of "gash" from you and other subscribers to the myth of Bell as a top class bat when this series is over and as I predict he ends up with a lower average than any of the specialist batsmen, Prior, Broad and Swann also". Pretty cool, eh - although I unaccountably left out Anderson from my list!

Even in ancillary matters I was pretty much spot on. For instance I correctly predicted that it was not only Ajmal, but also Gul who would be giving Bell fits in the UAE series, to which a genius named amanuensis - who has I see now re-emerged from the woodwork, presumably in the hope that we've forgotten his previous stupidities - replied "Gul isn't a particularly good test bowler. His strength lies in limited overs cricket, so I don't see the relevance of your argument". Our friend the Furball weighed in with his usual insightfulness "he's a fairly average Test bowler". That worked out well for you guys, didn't it? I mean, Gul only took a goodly number of England top order wickets at critical moments in the series at a low twenties average and with a healthy strike rate, and he only looked, after Broad, the most penetrating pace bowler on view? (Not that I didn't slap them down at the time: "As for the person who dismissed Gul as merely an ODI bowler, mate, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Gul is one of the very best in the world at exploiting these sorts of conditions in Tests....." etc)

Pietersen I gave as much stick as Bell right from the get go, pointing out that all his technical tinkerings have meant that he fundamentally does not any longer know how to go about scoring runs against good quality bowling, that he is basically washed up both mentally and seemingly technically, and that this mixture of technical and mental problems is brought into focus even more by decent slow bowling on SC-type surfaces, with the net result that he - who, unlike Bell, had at least once been a very good player - was now in the same sub-20 average bracket.

So you guys have to deal with someone who after the very first Test in the UAE correctly predicted that both Bell and Pietersen would average less than 20 in the remainder of that series and would if picked for the SL Tests continue to perform miserably, and who on that basis was calling for them to be replaced even then. How have I done?

It seems rather well, no? Everything I wrote about those two has since come true. Whenever I have been wrong about some detail I - unlike some on this forum - have been happy to hold my hands up and own up to it, because for me it's not about ego or being right all the time; it's rather about finding out the truth and coming to terms with it no matter how tough it is or how much it militates against one's own affections or affiliations.

Would that others on these boards shared my ideals and stopped clinging to old affections which have no basis in logic or current performance.
If you're going to parade around like this, it will not end well for you.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
:laugh: if that's all you've got to offer. Bbbbbut, hadn't you put me on your ignore list, or whatever? Either you were telling porkies then, or, you've come to see the error of your ways, perhaps realizing that you were depriving yourself of some of the most insightful commentary on this forum for no good reason. If the latter, :cheers:
 
Last edited:

smash84

The Tiger King
That's correct. I first posted on 22 Jan 2012, immediately after the First Test in the UAE. I said that Bell would average less than 20 in the series to general incredulity.

Almost amazing to recall now, but that was the apogee of the false adulation for Bell, not just as a world class batsman - which I inconveniently pointed out that he has never been, at any point in his career -, but as a nailed on fixture in any credible top 10 list, with some lunatics even making him number one. :laugh:

For instance, "Marcuss" responded to my initial posts with the following insightful evaluation of the sherminator: "Been the best batsman in the world for just over a year tbh". marc71178 accused me of spouting "utter codswallop". GingerFurball described my comments as "stupid" and when I wrote that "For me Bell against an attack like this is a 15-20 average man" and made my famous prediction that he would average less than 20 for the rest of the series - i.e. that, not even including his First Test failure, he would continue to perform just as cluelessly -, the same poster did that juvenile thing which some regular posters on this site have a habit of doing of posting some moronic clip from a US TV programme in order to ridicule the guy he is arguing against. In this case it was of a guy wearing a stethoscope - presumably a doctor, then ;-) - spitting out a cup of coffee or whatever.

Other annoying clips and still images were posted by a variety of clueless posters to ridicule me - because of course they could not refute my logic. The clips - and no doubt the programmes from which they were extracted - are now a distant memory for most, but my correct predictions are still there for anyone to check starting on page 214 of the UAE series thread.

Jacknife described my comments as "gash", to which I responded: "I look forward to reading a lot of "gash" from you and other subscribers to the myth of Bell as a top class bat when this series is over and as I predict he ends up with a lower average than any of the specialist batsmen, Prior, Broad and Swann also". Pretty cool, eh - although I unaccountably left out Anderson from my list!

Even in ancillary matters I was pretty much spot on. For instance I correctly predicted that it was not only Ajmal, but also Gul who would be giving Bell fits in the UAE series, to which a genius named amanuensis - who has I see now re-emerged from the woodwork, presumably in the hope that we've forgotten his previous stupidities - replied "Gul isn't a particularly good test bowler. His strength lies in limited overs cricket, so I don't see the relevance of your argument". Our friend the Furball weighed in with his usual insightfulness "he's a fairly average Test bowler". That worked out well for you guys, didn't it? I mean, Gul only took a goodly number of England top order wickets at critical moments in the series at a low twenties average and with a healthy strike rate, and he only looked, after Broad, the most penetrating pace bowler on view? (Not that I didn't slap them down at the time: "As for the person who dismissed Gul as merely an ODI bowler, mate, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Gul is one of the very best in the world at exploiting these sorts of conditions in Tests....." etc)

Pietersen I gave as much stick as Bell right from the get go, pointing out that all his technical tinkerings have meant that he fundamentally does not any longer know how to go about scoring runs against good quality bowling, that he is basically washed up both mentally and seemingly technically, and that this mixture of technical and mental problems is brought into focus even more by decent slow bowling on SC-type surfaces, with the net result that he - who, unlike Bell, had at least once been a very good player - was now in the same sub-20 average bracket.

So you guys have to deal with someone who after the very first Test in the UAE correctly predicted that both Bell and Pietersen would average less than 20 in the remainder of that series and would if picked for the SL Tests continue to perform miserably, and who on that basis was calling for them to be replaced even then. How have I done?

It seems rather well, no? Everything I wrote about those two has since come true. Whenever I have been wrong about some detail I - unlike some on this forum - have been happy to hold my hands up and own up to it, because for me it's not about ego or being right all the time; it's rather about finding out the truth and coming to terms with it no matter how tough it is or how much it militates against one's own affections or affiliations.

Would that others on these boards shared my ideals and stopped clinging to old affections which have no basis in logic or current performance.
You, Sir, are legend.

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

easily the best and most insightful new poster on the forum. Take a bow
 

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