I sometimes get the impression you're stalking me. Hope I'm wrong.
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***Official*** England in Sri Lanka 2012
- Thread starter Cabinet96
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
Smali, stop egging him on. I know you just want to watch the show. You're not getting one mate.You, Sir, are legend.
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easily the best and most insightful new poster on the forum. Take a bow
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
What's your opinion on Vernon Philander is he a flash in the pan or here to stay?That's correct. I first posted on 22 Jan 2012, immediately after the First Test in the UAE. I said that Bell would average less than 20 in the series to general incredulity.
Almost amazing to recall now, but that was the apogee of the false adulation for Bell, not just as a world class batsman - which I inconveniently pointed out that he has never been, at any point in his career -, but as a nailed on fixture in any credible top 10 list, with some lunatics even making him number one.
For instance, "Marcuss" responded to my initial posts with the following insightful evaluation of the sherminator: "Been the best batsman in the world for just over a year tbh". marc71178 accused me of spouting "utter codswallop". GingerFurball described my comments as "stupid" and when I wrote that "For me Bell against an attack like this is a 15-20 average man" and made my famous prediction that he would average less than 20 for the rest of the series - i.e. that, not even including his First Test failure, he would continue to perform just as cluelessly -, the same poster did that juvenile thing which some regular posters on this site have a habit of doing of posting some moronic clip from a US TV programme in order to ridicule the guy he is arguing against. In this case it was of a guy wearing a stethoscope - presumably a doctor, then ;-) - spitting out a cup of coffee or whatever.
Other annoying clips and still images were posted by a variety of clueless posters to ridicule me - because of course they could not refute my logic. The clips - and no doubt the programmes from which they were extracted - are now a distant memory for most, but my correct predictions are still there for anyone to check starting on page 214 of the UAE series thread.
Jacknife described my comments as "gash", to which I responded: "I look forward to reading a lot of "gash" from you and other subscribers to the myth of Bell as a top class bat when this series is over and as I predict he ends up with a lower average than any of the specialist batsmen, Prior, Broad and Swann also". Pretty cool, eh - although I unaccountably left out Anderson from my list!
Even in ancillary matters I was pretty much spot on. For instance I correctly predicted that it was not only Ajmal, but also Gul who would be giving Bell fits in the UAE series, to which a genius named amanuensis - who has I see now re-emerged from the woodwork, presumably in the hope that we've forgotten his previous stupidities - replied "Gul isn't a particularly good test bowler. His strength lies in limited overs cricket, so I don't see the relevance of your argument". Our friend the Furball weighed in with his usual insightfulness "he's a fairly average Test bowler". That worked out well for you guys, didn't it? I mean, Gul only took a goodly number of England top order wickets at critical moments in the series at a low twenties average and with a healthy strike rate, and he only looked, after Broad, the most penetrating pace bowler on view? (Not that I didn't slap them down at the time: "As for the person who dismissed Gul as merely an ODI bowler, mate, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Gul is one of the very best in the world at exploiting these sorts of conditions in Tests....." etc)
Pietersen I gave as much stick as Bell right from the get go, pointing out that all his technical tinkerings have meant that he fundamentally does not any longer know how to go about scoring runs against good quality bowling, that he is basically washed up both mentally and seemingly technically, and that this mixture of technical and mental problems is brought into focus even more by decent slow bowling on SC-type surfaces, with the net result that he - who, unlike Bell, had at least once been a very good player - was now in the same sub-20 average bracket.
So you guys have to deal with someone who after the very first Test in the UAE correctly predicted that both Bell and Pietersen would average less than 20 in the remainder of that series and would if picked for the SL Tests continue to perform miserably, and who on that basis was calling for them to be replaced even then. How have I done?
It seems rather well, no? Everything I wrote about those two has since come true. Whenever I have been wrong about some detail I - unlike some on this forum - have been happy to hold my hands up and own up to it, because for me it's not about ego or being right all the time; it's rather about finding out the truth and coming to terms with it no matter how tough it is or how much it militates against one's own affections or affiliations.
Would that others on these boards shared my ideals and stopped clinging to old affections which have no basis in logic or current performance.
Flem274*
123/5
No, let's not mate.
If you think someone is being, shall we say, overly proud of their exploits, you don't give them the attention they so crave.
Whether or not CWB is such remains to be decided, and let's leave it there.
Flem274*
123/5
I know on cricsim you said you wanted an infraction, so I'll just let you know that despite being a **** stirrer, you're not getting one.
You are being told I'll post all of Colin Munro's hundreds this season on youtube with TASTE IT HURRICANE if you continue this line of posting however.
Viscount Tom
International Debutant
Personally although I think the smugness is unnecessary equally I think in a few regards he's been vindicated.
Bell and KP have issues but different ones.
Kapes's issues I think are more to with the lack of pace and bounce on these pitches there are technical problems there. I think his height is exacerbating the issue given his front-footed batting style at least in regard to his balance. Vaughan pointed out KP's issue of mental baggage as far back as 2010 but then had a good ashes series.
As for Bell its poor shot selection especially with his range of shots he's quick on his feet and should be dancing with his footwork around the crease.
That said I'm not altogether keen on dropping either of them because we don't appear to have any accomplished players of spin to replace them with and those players coming through need a few more SC Lions tours before we can start throwing them in. Some pitch variation to have more pitches condusive to spin at the FC could go someway to speeding up the process.
Bell and KP have issues but different ones.
Kapes's issues I think are more to with the lack of pace and bounce on these pitches there are technical problems there. I think his height is exacerbating the issue given his front-footed batting style at least in regard to his balance. Vaughan pointed out KP's issue of mental baggage as far back as 2010 but then had a good ashes series.
As for Bell its poor shot selection especially with his range of shots he's quick on his feet and should be dancing with his footwork around the crease.
That said I'm not altogether keen on dropping either of them because we don't appear to have any accomplished players of spin to replace them with and those players coming through need a few more SC Lions tours before we can start throwing them in. Some pitch variation to have more pitches condusive to spin at the FC could go someway to speeding up the process.
Philander was already one of the best three or four seam bowlers in the world before he made his Test debut. Since his debut he has just got better and better, learning from Steyn and for the most part exploiting the conditions even more effectively. This is not because he is a better bowler than Steyn - for me he is Pollock to Steyn's Donald, and, of the two in that amazing new ball partnership, I always always give White Lightning the palm -, but because if Steyn has a weakness it is that he sometimes allows ego to get in the way and bowls to intimidate rather than bowling the most effective wicket-taking ball.
For instance at Newlands when Clarke scored that brilliant 151, Steyn could easily have got him out before he'd got going if, after bowling those early bouncers and having him in all sorts of trouble, he'd simply cut down his pace, bowled line and length and allowed the movement off the pitch and through the air to get him out caught at the wicket nervously feeling for the ball. He didn't, continued to bowl bouncers and thereby allowed allowed Clarke to get away. Philander could never have made that mistake even if he had wanted to because he simply doesn't have the pace to trouble a quality batsman like Carke with short pitched stuff and so wouldn't have gone on bowling the wrong length for two overs when he could at any point have had Clarke out either caught behind with a regular outswinger or LBW with one that jagged back in.
Anyway, IMO Philander will be a permanent fixture in any world XI that is picked from now until he decides to retire. He will end up averaging in the low - really low - twenties for his career like all the great medium-quick strike bowlers have done historically.
Spark
Global Moderator
See I don't think it's necessarily a "temperament" issue with Bell despite it being a mental issue. I actually think his temperament, whilst not stellar, is OK. I've joked on here about him batting like a textbook before, but I really do mean it - he is one of the least adaptable batsmen in world cricket IMO, and probably one of the worst at dealing with bowling that is outside his "comfort" zone, due to the nature of his batting and the approach he takes to it. But I'd honestly be much more concerned about KP than Bell in terms of a basic temperament issue. I mean that last innings was probably the best KP has batted in a while but even then he played some shots - up to and including the one that got him out - that could only be described as daft.
Having said that, Bell has played some appalling shots at some really bad times in the last year - cf Lord's 2nd dig vs India, Trent Bridge 1st innings (a few there), 3rd UAE Test chase, and here. Whether that was a good decision or not by the umpire is by the by in this case - a paddle sweep to a left-armer who's pitching on a good-ish but not half-volley length on middle and off stump is just a truly abysmal idea.
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Spark
Global Moderator
Hmmm, I don't think this analysis is entirely accurate, because if I recall correctly Steyn only had one more over at Clarke after the one where he obviously had him in all sorts, and that over was mostly outswingers - at least one of which beat Clarke (and the two others were driven for three/four). After that Smith brought Kallis on, and, well... let's just say it wasn't the best captaincy I'd ever seen. Or the best bowling.
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Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure you're right and that it was not so much his continuing to bowl the wrong length after he'd worked him over as that he was not given the additional overs to finish the job.
It was a truly beautiful spell but why do I have the nagging feeling that Philander would have actually got him out rather than just beating the bat? It's just a feeling, but even without going back to the tapes I know that your recollection is more accurate than mine, and the facts don't support it.
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Spark
Global Moderator
It depends. Philander came on not that long afterwards (Smith realised his error in a hurry)... and Clarke started hitting fours off him for fun, although he did beat him a few times. The overriding feeling at that stage though was that no one had the slightest idea where to bowl to Clarke, because he was off and running.
However I agree with you, had Philander been bowling at him before he was set, he'd have got him out. It's not much surprise that he was the bowler who looked like troubling Clarke the most consistently throughout the entire "series" (twice getting him with balls that nipped back, a big early-on weakness of Clarke's). I definitely think Clarke preferred facing Steyn - he bowls a slightly more driveable length and out-and-out pace has never been a concern of his.
Off-track though.
However I agree with you, had Philander been bowling at him before he was set, he'd have got him out. It's not much surprise that he was the bowler who looked like troubling Clarke the most consistently throughout the entire "series" (twice getting him with balls that nipped back, a big early-on weakness of Clarke's). I definitely think Clarke preferred facing Steyn - he bowls a slightly more driveable length and out-and-out pace has never been a concern of his.
Off-track though.
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smash84
The Tiger King
dude, I think you have it wrong. I, for one, have been won over to CWB's side since the time his predictions came true. Also the fact that I find his style of writing pretty awesome.Smali, stop egging him on. I know you just want to watch the show. You're not getting one mate.
Wow.....this is a big call. Would be interesting to see how long he can maintain this wicket taking spree. I believe that Philander would tail off dramatically after his first injury. Just a hunch
I always knew he was good, but realized just how good he was when I saw the trouble he was giving Sanga in the recent SL/SA series. At times he looked like getting the world's best batsman out with every ball.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
smalishah is such a sycophant. Positively galling 
Spark
Global Moderator
Really unnecesssary.smalishah is such a sycophant. Positively galling
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Broad out.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
flibbertyjibber
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Well played SL. Deserved win. England will do an India, return home and win against all comers and this will soon be forgotten by the powers that be. Hopefully the fans won't forget it though.
PS. Worst number 1 ever? I think so judging by this winter.
PS. Worst number 1 ever? I think so judging by this winter.
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four_or_six
Cricketer Of The Year
Urgh, nightmare. Finn to step up?
Really annoys me from the batting point of view, I like the look of things so much more with Broad in there.