*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[Mr Casson]

Well I'm placing my bet on a draw for this test. That means South Africa will need to win two on the trot to win the series; I think that's a bit hard the way the two teams are playing at the moment.

 

[Pratters]

Well I'm placing my bet on a draw for this test. That means South Africa will need to win two on the trot to win the series; I think that's a bit hard the way the two teams are playing at the moment.

mm I sid England wont be able to win the series. So even a draw series would be good enough.

 

[marc71178]

Speaking of the job they would have been able to do, South Africa did make runs in the innings Kallis got his century in the last test. And they took the wickets in the first inning. So its not as if South Africa is incapable of 'doing the job'.

And of course they had no help from 3 of the top order hooking themselves out?

I havent changed any tune. Just pointing out the way the pitch is being iven credit when South Africa is doing some thing and the performances of the English over praised. Both should be given due credit.

I don't see how SA can be praised for that few runs on that pitch in a full day?

Your first complaints were about people calling the wicket flat to diminish the run scoring, but you were wrong then because it had happened before they started. Then you started to make things up to attack the English fans for something we've not done.

And I NEVER said England could do nothing in the series.

No, just repeatedly given them no hope, in spite of them winning the first, and being on top in the second when the light tailed off.

All I have believed is that they wont win the series in South Africa. Its you who has magnified this to unimaginable proportions, attacking unnecessarily.

No, I'm just rebutting your comments, because they need rebutting as they're not seemingly based on the current sides.

 

[Pratters]

And of course they had no help from 3 of the top order hooking themselves out?

If English play horribly, it isnt the Proteas' falt

I don't see how SA can be praised for that few runs on that pitch in a full day?

Again the 'pitch' as I mentioned. When they do make the runs it is the pitch isnt it.

Your first complaints were about people calling the wicket flat to diminish the run scoring, but you were wrong then because it had happened before they started. Then you started to make things up to attack the English fans for something we've not done.

You just did that even in your last comment.

No, just repeatedly given them no hope, in spite of them winning the first, and being on top in the second when the light tailed off.

It isnt South Africa's fault the light tailed off. Even India had to draw a test in 1997 in South Africa due to light. Its a five test series and such things shouldnt be thought of. Happens in cricket. I never gave them no hope. Just expressed that they I do not believe they could win the series.

Also, hoping and predicting are two different things. I do obviously hope South Africa makes great runs and England struggles and that has been expressed on occasions.

But you would also hope English wrap up a South African inning for less than 100!

No, I'm just rebutting your comments, because they need rebutting as they're not seemingly based on the current sides.

Its based on the current sides. The English have played better cricket up to thi point but doesnt prove they have it in them to win an away series in South Africa. Rebutting of comments is fine but not taking the other person's view isnt.

 

[marc71178]

If English play horribly, it isnt the Proteas' falt

Yes, but it doesn't mean that they bowled especially well.

Again the 'pitch' as I mentioned. When they do make the runs it is the pitch isnt it.

The pitch was noted as flat BEFORE they scored any runs, so it wasn't an excuse.

When the groundsman comes out and says he expects the pitch will be a 400-500 track, surely that tells you a little bit about the nature of it?

You just did that even in your last comment.

I did what?

It isnt South Africa's fault the light tailed off.

No, but it's hardly showed that SA are likely to challenge in the series when they lost the first game (even though England didn't play that well) and very nearly lost the second.

Its based on the current sides. The English have played better cricket up to thi point but doesnt prove they have it in them to win an away series in South Africa. Rebutting of comments is fine but not taking the other person's view isnt.

Well on what basis have you made these comments? England have quite clearly shown themselves to be the better side in this series so far, so what makes you think that South Africa can come back to win 2 of the final 3 games (bearing in mind that this pitch looks likely to produce a draw after that first day's play?)

But still, please keep on making these predictions and comments because so far in this series, you've said a similar thing in both Tests and from that point on, England have dominated.

 

[duffer]

Darryl Harper could well have ended Amla's career with that shocker. Poor lad, got two corkers at Durban and now this.

 

[marc71178]

I don't think it'd end his career when you consider the selection policy of the South Africans.

 

[Pratters]

Yes, but it doesn't mean that they bowled especially well.

Not the Proteas' fault either if their opponents throw the wickets away

The pitch was noted as flat BEFORE they scored any runs, so it wasn't an excuse.

When the groundsman comes out and says he expects the pitch will be a 400-500 track, surely that tells you a little bit about the nature of it?

This is what I was referring to exactly. Givin more credit to the pitch than the actual batsmen scoring te runs or bowlers taking the wickets. [/quote]

I did what?

You gave more credit to the pitch than the players themselves as stated [/quote]

No, but it's hardly showed that SA are likely to challenge in the series when they lost the first game (even though England didn't play that well) and very nearly lost the second.

Doesnt mean any thing considering the series hasnt ended. Likely to challenge should not be based upon just how they have performed before that. You can believe too. South Africa have been strong before this in home and I have no reason to believe they will lose the series to this England side, however strong they may be or may be made out to be.

Well on what basis have you made these comments? England have quite clearly shown themselves to be the better side in this series so far, so what makes you think that South Africa can come back to win 2 of the final 3 games (bearing in mind that this pitch looks likely to produce a draw after that first day's play?)

The pitch cant be judged on just one and half days cricket. Again you are impying the runs are scored cos of the flat wickets more than the South African batsmen. Also, even if they manage to win one of the tests, the series would be a draw and my prediction/feeling would turn true.

But still, please keep on making these predictions and comments because so far in this series, you've said a similar thing in both Tests and from that point on, England have dominated.

I would express what I believe on the forum. Doesnt matter if you feel they would turn out wrong or right. I have said before the series that I believe England wont win the series.

Other than that its all been a hope in the first two tests. Like you would wish England win the test, I have hoped South Africa to take the wickets and turn around the match. Didnt predict that. So dont pounce when there is nothing to pounce on.

 

[marc71178]

Not the Proteas' fault either if their opponents throw the wickets away

Irrelevant if they've not bowled especially well.

This is what I was referring to exactly. Givin more credit to the pitch than the actual batsmen scoring te runs or bowlers taking the wickets.

The initial talk of it being flat came BEFORE they batted

Doesnt mean any thing considering the series hasnt ended. Likely to challenge should not be based upon just how they have performed before that. You can believe too. South Africa have been strong before this in home and I have no reason to believe they will lose the series to this England side, however strong they may be or may be made out to be.

Correction, previous South African sides with the likes of Rhodes, Cullinan and Kirsten have been strong at home.

This side is nowhere near that good, and this England side is just about as good as anything they've faced since their return.

The pitch cant be judged on just one and half days cricket. Again you are impying the runs are scored cos of the flat wickets more than the South African batsmen.

And of course we shouldn't listen to the groundsman who suggested it before the game should we, I mean what would he know?

Of course runs have to be made, but when the pitch is flat it's a lot easier to do so.

Also, even if they manage to win one of the tests, the series would be a draw and my prediction/feeling would turn true.

Assuming of course they can draw the other 2 matches as well - to be honest that's not that likely (3 draws in a 5 Test series)

Other than that its all been a hope in the first two tests. Like you would wish England win the test, I have hoped South Africa to take the wickets and turn around the match. Didnt predict that. So dont pounce when there is nothing to pounce on.

I'm sorry, but when you say things like:


As I mentioned before the series, there is nochance of the English winning in South Africa. South Africa is too strong at home

then there is definitely something to rebut.

 

[S & G Jones Fan]

good session by england well done

 

[Pratters]

Irrelevant if they've not bowled especially well.

If they take the wickets as they did in the first inning of the second test, the details are irrelevent I would say [/quote]

The initial talk of it being flat came BEFORE they batted

Trying to change the topic are we? You just said about the pitch and making the runs because of it!

Correction, previous South African sides with the likes of Rhodes, Cullinan and Kirsten have been strong at home.

The one which bashed the Windies (which was weak but a huge marin isnt a meak achievment) last time around didnt have Rhodes, Cullinan

This side is nowhere near that good, and this England side is just about as good as anything they've faced since their return.

South Africa is not as good as before. But they arent totally weak and spent as they are made out to be and will indeed fight the series out.

And of course we shouldn't listen to the groundsman who suggested it before the game should we, I mean what would he know?

Of course runs have to be made, but when the pitch is flat it's a lot easier to do so.

Groundsmen arent reliable at all. You would know that I thought. The one in India said the match would last 5 days in the series vs Australia and it didnt by any chance. And its just the second day. It cant be judged how much the pitch will crumble later on with some degree of accuracy before the third day.

Assuming of course they can draw the other 2 matches as well - to be honest that's not that likely (3 draws in a 5 Test series)

If two draws out of three are likely, which you apparently believe considering you believe this match will be a draw because of the flat nature, why not 3 out of 5? Not totally likely but not totally unlikely either.

I'm sorry, but when you say things like:


As I mentioned before the series, there is nochance of the English winning in South Africa. South Africa is too strong at home

then there is definitely something to rebut.

Yes they are still strong enough at home to not lose the series vs this English side.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I have a horrible feeling that the tail-enders will hold up England again and get SA over 400.... (*tempts fate to make SA get bowled out for under 350*)

 

[wpdavid]

I have a horrible feeling that the tail-enders will hold up England again and get SA over 400.... (*tempts fate to make SA get bowled out for under 350*)

*Probably the wisest course of action.

I thought it was a strange session. Harmison's first over was great and I thought we looked set to have a real go at the SA batters. Thereafter, I thought Harmy & Hoggard generally wasted the new ball with far too many deliveries that could be left alone. Despite that we've got 3 wickets thanks to a very lucky lbw, deVilliers missing a slow full toss and Pollock clearly being incovenienced by his damaged fingers.

As I type this, our openers have started the after lunch session with the biggest pile of excrement you could wish to see. Sighs.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Why is Vaughan encouraging Harmison to bowl the short and wide garbage?

 

[sledger]

to bore the batsmen out?.......

 

[BoyBrumby]

It's proper test cricket, isn't it? Boje obviously no mug with the willow, although I think Harmy's right to come around the wicket to him. Don't give him width.

Hard to know what a good score is until we bat. Bob Key will be nervous & Vaughany had that bang on his hand from Jim Anderson in the nets (that's the way to get back into the team!), so a lot depends on Messers Trescothick & Strauss first up.

356-7, so I don't wanna jump gun to much!

 

[Scaly piscine]

to bore the batsmen out?.......

Can't even get people out that way, if they have a wild slash at the short & wide crap it'll go over the slips for 4 as Boje has illustrated, the only way they can get out is to get a thin edge which isn't particularly likely.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Throw Freddie!

Think the wheels starting to come off a bit! Biggest partnership of innings now!

 

[Scaly piscine]

It's the sort of wicket where Lara would be thinking 375 or 400 by himself. Can't genuinely bowl people out on the pitch, just hope for batsmen to throw their wicket away. SA have taken too long to get these runs and don't have enough runs to have an outside chance of making England following on.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, I don't wanna tempt fate too much, but it does look like it's got "draw" stamped all over it.

Unless Boje can transfer some of his batting form to his bowling, pitch looks like it will take more & more turn as the game goes on. Very dry.