*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[Duncan]

South Africa has been completely outclassed by England. England is by far the number two team and might even stand a chance against Australia in the Ashes. How come South Africa is so mediocre nowadays? They used to be number two for a long time. I know they lost Donald and a few others but they also gained people like Smith.

 

[tooextracool]

how does a good ODI performance make england the no 2 test side?
and AFAIC NZ is still the no 2 ODI side.

 

[twctopcat]

I'll give him that.. He batted nicely, glad to see we got stuck in though so credit to him for surviving..

Other than that, he is right up there with Robert Mugabe, Attention seekers, Muralitharan and noisy eaters for the five things that make me really angry

Didn't realise you were that fickle!!

 

[biased indian]

South Africa has been completely outclassed by England. England is by far the number two team and might even stand a chance against Australia in the Ashes. How come South Africa is so mediocre nowadays? They used to be number two for a long time. I know they lost Donald and a few others but they also gained people like Smith.

when was ashes changed to a ODI series

 

[Langeveldt]

South Africa has been completely outclassed by England. England is by far the number two team and might even stand a chance against Australia in the Ashes. How come South Africa is so mediocre nowadays? They used to be number two for a long time. I know they lost Donald and a few others but they also gained people like Smith.

Im tempted to point the finger at getting rid of Pollock, as well as the onset of Jennings.. Nobody with the class of Kallis, Pollock, Gibbs, Smith etc. should be losing to England without Flintoff..

 

[marc71178]

Somehow I can't see Graeme Smith in the England colours

Neither can I the way he's playing.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah well, as it usually keeps a promising English youngster from playing, long may it continue!

If the youngster is good enough, he'll be playing.

If he's not good enough to get in a county side, he's no loss Internationally.

 

[marc71178]

South Africa has been completely outclassed by England. England is by far the number two team and might even stand a chance against Australia in the Ashes. How come South Africa is so mediocre nowadays? They used to be number two for a long time. I know they lost Donald and a few others but they also gained people like Smith.

They lost more than just Donald - they lost an entire middle order.

 

[marc71178]

And interesting to see another good effort from Vaughan in an ODI - he's beginning to make a habit of that.

 

[Swervy]

Im tempted to point the finger at getting rid of Pollock, as well as the onset of Jennings.. Nobody with the class of Kallis, Pollock, Gibbs, Smith etc. should be losing to England without Flintoff..

and yet strangely enough, the England team of todays game,even on paper, looks like a match for the South Africans.

You can have the players of the class of Kallis etc, but in the one day game, England have players of equal class I think.

Anyway this was only one game. On the whole England looked the better team, but this is a long one day series.SA should be considered faves, due to experience in this form of the game and home field advantage.

If SA dont win, then something is badly wrong, esp as Flintoff isnt playing

 

[Scaly piscine]

and yet strangely enough, the England team of todays game,even on paper, looks like a match for the South Africans.

You can have the players of the class of Kallis etc, but in the one day game, England have players of equal class I think.

Anyway this was only one game. On the whole England looked the better team, but this is a long one day series.SA should be considered faves, due to experience in this form of the game and home field advantage.

If SA dont win, then something is badly wrong, esp as Flintoff isnt playing

According to cricinfo SA haven't beaten a team in an ODI other than Bangladesh or Zimbabwe since last February. As for SA having so many players of class, they also have players like Bacher and Prince who would make England's least established 2 players - Kabir Ali and Ian Bell look like World beaters.

 

[sledger]

According to cricinfo SA haven't beaten a team in an ODI other than Bangladesh or Zimbabwe since last February. As for SA having so many players of class, they also have players like Bacher and Prince who would make England's least established 2 players - Kabir Ali and Ian Bell look like World beaters.

hahaha....., maybe in time they will be lol

 

[Swervy]

According to cricinfo SA haven't beaten a team in an ODI other than Bangladesh or Zimbabwe since last February. As for SA having so many players of class, they also have players like Bacher and Prince who would make England's least established 2 players - Kabir Ali and Ian Bell look like World beaters.

I agree,I think England are much stronger in depth

 

[wpdavid]

I think we can probably all see the shortcomings of the "quota" system, however laudable its intentions are.

I do think Pietersen may have been better advised to keep his council on the subject, but after all it was impacting on his livelihood.

To draw a crass analogy Pietersen has left SA for broadly the same reasons as D'Oliveira did: to play test cricket.

To be fair, D'Oliveira left to play first class cricket, plus the opportunity to live in a country where he wasn't systematically treated like dirt due to the colour of his skin. The tests were a bonus.

Regarding KP, I've not been impressed by his tendancy to publicly moan in a couple of interviews (first about SA quotas, subsequently about initially not being picked for this tour) but, as you suggested the other day, I'm warming to him given the amount of vitriol he's getting from the locals. Nice to see him seeing us home today. Good to see Vaughan getting some runs, as well.


As for the Saffies, I have no idea why Bacher was recalled to replace de Villiers. Nice of them as far as we were concerned, but a bizarre call. Did you hear about the press conference where Matthew Maynard was asked why Hoggard had been added to the squad? His reply was that it would be crazy to jetison the bowler who had Smith hiding in the middle order. Not very diplomatic, and I gather GC wasn't thrilled, but next thing we see is Smith opening today, albeit briefly. Nice one MM!

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Did you hear about the press conference where Matthew Maynard was asked why Hoggard had been added to the squad? His reply was that it would be crazy to jetison the bowler who had Smith hiding in the middle order. Not very diplomatic, and I gather GC wasn't thrilled, but next thing we see is Smith opening today, albeit briefly. Nice one MM!

That was classic!

Whos GC btw? GS?

 

[Langeveldt]

Regarding KP, I've not been impressed by his tendancy to publicly moan in a couple of interviews (first about SA quotas, subsequently about initially not being picked for this tour) but, as you suggested the other day, I'm warming to him given the amount of vitriol he's getting from the locals.

Can you put two and two together and realise why the SA cricket public don't like him?

 

[Duncan]

when was ashes changed to a ODI series

Well they easily won the test series against South Africa. That's what I was referring to.

 

[wpdavid]

That was classic!

Whos GC btw? GS?

Whoops - thanks for the correction.

 

[wpdavid]

Can you put two and two together and realise why the SA cricket public don't like him?

I'm not asking them to like him, even if his crime does seem to be saying something about the quota system that a lot of them agree with anyway. Obviously they're free to think whatever they want of the guy, and I don't 100% disagree with them, but most of us can draw a line between disliking someone and dishing out the level of unpleasantness we're hearing about this week.

 

[BoyBrumby]

To be fair, D'Oliveira left to play first class cricket, plus the opportunity to live in a country where he wasn't systematically treated like dirt due to the colour of his skin. The tests were a bonus.

As for the Saffies, I have no idea why Bacher was recalled to replace de Villiers. Nice of them as far as we were concerned, but a bizarre call. Did you hear about the press conference where Matthew Maynard was asked why Hoggard had been added to the squad? His reply was that it would be crazy to jetison the bowler who had Smith hiding in the middle order. Not very diplomatic, and I gather GC wasn't thrilled, but next thing we see is Smith opening today, albeit briefly. Nice one MM!

I hadn't heard that, kwality stuff! At the rate he's going at the moment I'm starting to wonder how long young Graeme is going to be given; he's a conservative captain (at best), he's batting like a drain at the moment (for an opener he's very uneasy with a swinging new ball, which is where Hoggy comes in!) & his overall behaviour has been short of what I expect of a test captain. I simply couldn't believe he gave evidence against Vaughan at that hearing.

With D'Oliveira you're right of course; he came to blighty in his late 20s to play league cricket in Lancs & his talent took him to the very top of our game. Have you read Peter Oborne's bio? Certainly an eye-opener! The level of collusion between the MCC & Vorster's govt was quite alarming. It paints Gubby Allen in a rather unfavourable light.