***Official*** England in Pakistan

[Natman20]

IMO when they have Vaughan back their isn't any problem with their batting line-up. I think they just didn't perform in that one innings. They keep getting 400+ in first innings so thats pretty good

 

[open365]

The Flintoff 6 or 7 situation is a bit like Giles' bowling.

he might not be the best test 6 out there,but in the current England squad he is the best person for the job.

I agree with dropping a spinner(but which one?) though i doubt it will happen.

And the positive cricket garbage that Nasser Hussain was talking is complete crap.

Chasing 198 is not a good reason to try and score at over 4 an over.

 

[open365]

IMO when they have Vaughan back their isn't any problem with their batting line-up. I think they just didn't perform in that one innings. They keep getting 400+ in first innings so thats pretty good

but can you ever see them getting 500?

i can't,if Vaughany wasn't captain then maybe,but his batting isn't what it used to be.

 

[UncleTheOne]

but can you ever see them getting 500?

i can't,if Vaughany wasn't captain then maybe,but his batting isn't what it used to be.

He is very hit and miss these days, mostly miss. He had one fantastic season against the Indians and Australians then seemed to lose his touch, and his centuries for England since always seem to be littered with luck.

 

[open365]

yeh,accoring to some stats someone posted on here a while ago,he has been dropped the most times in the last 2 years or something.

he's not the man for a crisis and he doesn't even seem to be able to cash in on flat wickets anymore.

 

[luckyeddie]

haha. The English really did play well in that series but I think people have overated some players from the series and are calling them greats of all-time cricket where they havnt really played very well in other series. I just enjoy watching a team that is arguably the best in test cricket get beaten by a team ranked seventh in a match. I don't think there is much difference in between most international teams of course apart from west indies, zim and ban. I think any of the other teams can win on their day and thats why I want a test cricket world cup! Although that would drag out for a long time

I'm all in favour of a levelling-up of standards in test cricket, but a test cricket world cup? Never going to happen, I'm afraid.

I'm intrigued as to where you've heard people proposing any one of the current England team an all-time great - I doubt whether any one of the current side would even make it into a 'best of' side of the 1960's even (but perhaps that's just my old-person spectacles I'm looking through).

Edit: Flintoff would, but that's it.

 

[Hazza]

yeh,accoring to some stats someone posted on here a while ago,he has been dropped the most times in the last 2 years or something.

he's not the man for a crisis and he doesn't even seem to be able to cash in on flat wickets anymore.

Example: 166 in the Ashes- bowled off a no-ball and dropped by Gilchrist (I'm sure you didn't need telling that)

P.S. It required a great mental effort to open this thread

 

[Natman20]

I'm all in favour of a levelling-up of standards in test cricket, but a test cricket world cup? Never going to happen, I'm afraid.

I'm intrigued as to where you've heard people proposing any one of the current England team an all-time great - I doubt whether any one of the current side would even make it into a 'best of' side of the 1960's even (but perhaps that's just my old-person spectacles I'm looking through).

Edit: Flintoff would, but that's it.

It has been said right throughout these forums the great Pieterson or the great Flintoff (even though he is good) and the great Vaughan. I think the ranking systems have their own faults. What if a teams and players havn't played many games lately that would mean they would drop down in ranks. And England just beat Australia in a series but does that mean Australia deserve to stay on top? If you look at ODIs NZ has dropped from 2nd down to 6th and I think thats mainly because we missed out on that Sri Lankan series last year.

 

[Hodgo7]

T

.I know he's a positive player,but he really shoud have told himself to be less attacking,just for one innings.

That would be hypocritical of you. I reckon you would have been lauding his innings against the Aussies in the 5th test. He plays this way and there will be occasions where he will win you the game and lose you the game. You have to take the good with the bad. If he came out and scored 80 off 60 balls and won the game you wouldn't be making this point. Only because you lost you come out and say he should be less attacking.

 

[a10khan]

Not according to the Pakistanis on this forum.

lol is that so? well i am a pakistani and i strongly believe that.

and no matter what the media says i wasnt reading too much into the results of the side games. england has shown that they are a top team and rightfully so. i thought that they played well for the better part of 4 days, but there mid-order just didn't click.

 

[Pratters]

So this is totaly ignoring Gayle's ability to average almost 40 in ODIs? However you look at it 40 will always be > 30.

So you would say Michael Bevan is the geatest one day batsman because of his average? Also its 38.7 vs 31.6 with a much higher strike rate in one player's case.

 

[luckyeddie]

It has been said right throughout these forums the great Pieterson or the great Flintoff (even though he is good) and the great Vaughan. I think the ranking systems have their own faults. What if a teams and players havn't played many games lately that would mean they would drop down in ranks. And England just beat Australia in a series but does that mean Australia deserve to stay on top? If you look at ODIs NZ has dropped from 2nd down to 6th and I think thats mainly because we missed out on that Sri Lankan series last year.

If you'll pardon the expression, you're talking out of somewhere the sun doesn't shine.

Why don't you try to substantiate such an accusation by having a practice with the 'search' option?

I'd wager you will not find more than 1 or 2 people making 'all time great' statements. Possibly Vaughan's captaincy will be especially praised, but only in comparison to (giggle) Ponting, Flintoff is on the right lines as far as emulating some of Botham's feats but Pietersen? An all time great? One reference?

You've been on the sheep dip again, friend.

 

[PY]

I dunno, Barney was pretty praising of KP.

I can see where the comment might have come from. Some people did get carried away a little but I don't think anyone really took them seriously. Claiming someone has the potential and saying they've realised that potential should be separated in people's comments.

 

[luckyeddie]

I dunno, Barney was pretty praising of KP.

I can see where the comment might have come from. Some people did get carried away a little but I don't think anyone really took them seriously. Claiming someone has the potential and saying they've realised that potential should be separated in people's comments.

As an all-time great?

I praised Pietersen myself as far as potential, even went as far as suggesting that he's a candidate for the first double hundred in an ODI (next time we play Balgladesh, probably), but as you know, my favourite expression is "one swallow doesn't make a summer".*

*Actually, it's "Don't bother putting that whisky bottle back on the shelf. It's only half full", but that's neither here nor there.

(do you think I was a bit hard with the 'sheep dip' reference? I know James Nixon drinks it all the time, but do all Kiwis?)

 

[sqwerty]

Pakistan didn't win that, England threw it away. Absolutely pathetic knuckle-headed display from the batsmen.

That's funny.....that's exactly what I said about the Ashes !

 

[sqwerty]

Great win from Pakistan. Now Australia just have to qualify for the world cup tonight, and it'll be like the Ashes never happened.

yep who gives a stuff about cricket !

 

[sqwerty]

You obviously don't like Rugby Union then

been over that sport for years !

 

[PY]

As an all-time great?

I praised Pietersen myself as far as potential, even went as far as suggesting that he's a candidate for the first double hundred in an ODI (next time we play Balgladesh, probably), but as you know, my favourite expression is "one swallow doesn't make a summer".*

*Actually, it's "Don't bother putting that whisky bottle back on the shelf. It's only half full", but that's neither here nor there.

(do you think I was a bit hard with the 'sheep dip' reference? I know James Nixon drinks it all the time, but do all Kiwis?)

I thought you may have jumped pretty hard on him/her when some people (not yourself, maybe should have made that clear) have been saying some pretty silly stuff after the Ashes innings and ODIs.

I myself view him as having the potential to be a great but I think the poster might have mistook people saying that he's got the potential to be an all-time great as being they think he is an all-time great now.

That makes no sense and I make no excuses.

 

[social]

Anyway, after the achohol-induced euphoria of last night's World Cup qualification, a few thoughts.

As I said yesterday, that was a really enjoyable test match.

And no, you cynical *******s, not because Eng got beaten.

Despite their faults, or maybe because of them, the Pakistanis have a way of keeping you on the edge of your seat.

To those people calling for Fred's demotion to no. 7 - it wont happen any time soon. He has earned the no. 6 spot and, even if he hadnt, there's no better alternative. It would seem that he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer and, as such, people are going to put up with brain explosions from time to time.

IMO, just how much Duncan Fletcher has contributed to England's resurgence is open to debate. The fact that Giles is still bowling over the wicket and at a speed totally unsuited to the Multan wicket suggests that he either has no idea about handling spin bowlers or, alternatively, cant communicate with Giles.

Bell handled himself very well after his late call up. He looks a capable enough player of spin but is dodgy against seam first up.

KP's haircut, wannabe girl-friend and big shots are only fashionable for so long.

Hopefully Sami will one day do his talent justice.

The Rawalpindi Express is back on track.

 

[sqwerty]

You don't expect the bowlers to get all the runs do you? I couldn't give a stuff how Pakistan bowled, if England's batsmen had performed anything like what they should have they'd have gotten that target comfortably - so it's pretty obvious who's to blame.

Lets get real here though........On paper that English batting lineup isn't one you'd put your house on (apart from the openers). One of the strongest features of England's lineup is that the tail is partially useful.

Trescothick - probably best opener in the world at the moment
Strauss - solid but off the boil a bit
Bell - lottery but just looks good
Collingwood - what's he doing here?
Pieterson - totally off the boil
Flintoff - hitter
Jones - always looks good but never goes on with it - decent enough number 7 though
Giles - usually good for a few
Udal - never seen him
Hoggard - blocker that doesn't seem as reliable as in the past
Harmison - doesn't seem to give a sh!t.