***Official*** England in Pakistan

[Tom Halsey]

What happened to "uncle Don", Halsey?

He died, in 2001.

It's not a "**** and bull" story as you put it, it's actually true, and Adil can back me up on this. It was a guy called Amit who was possibly the most biased member ever (and he's come back several times under different names only to be banned again).

 

[chris.hinton]

Get rid of Giles

 

[steds]

It's not a "**** and bull" story as you put it, it's actually true, and Adil can back me up on this.

It's like saying you know the Loch Ness monster. I just can't believe it, and won't until I've seen the appropriate documentation proving it

 

[open365]

Yes when he gets going one of the most dangerous but also at times one of the more foolish as we saw today.

To be fair he's worked extremely hard on cutting down on his stupid dissmisals,he used to be a lot lot worse.

I was very dissapointed with the way he got out in the first innings,he had a could start but gave it away with an awful shot.

second time round i'm not sure what to think,the slog sweep is a shot player to leggies a lot with England,KP seems to middle them for 6 every time but fred isn't as good at it.Maybe he could have been more patient,but i think he was trying to finish the game early before anything could happen.

i am upset with KP'd dissmissal though,at that point in time he should never even have though about it.he was scoring quickly and was playing well.I know he's a positive player,but he really shoud have told himself to be less attacking,just for one innings.

 

[open365]

Get rid of Giles

make me.

 

[Tom Halsey]

It's like saying you know the Loch Ness monster. I just can't believe it, and won't until I've seen the appropriate documentation proving it

I'm not sure we have a family tree, that branches off in the right directions to include him, but if I do find one, I'll scan it up.

 

[luckyeddie]

It's like saying you know the Loch Ness monster. I just can't believe it, and won't until I've seen the appropriate documentation proving it

About tree fiddy

You gave dat monster tree fiddy?

(Sorry. Couldn't resist it)

 

[wpdavid]

no.

we play him there because we have no where else to put one of the most dengerous batsmen in the world.Just ask shaun Pollock what he thinks of Flintoff's batting.

Based on last year's series in SA, you may not get the answer from SP that you're expecting. This one's not going to go away, is it. Before the ashes, I was arguing that Fred should bat at 7, and obviously he made me look pretty silly by the end of the series. However, he does seem to leave his batting brains at Heathrow whenever he plays overseas, judging by the last 2 winters and both innings at Multan. He certainly didn't compare well with Craig White, for instance, who batted at 7 last time we were in Pakistan and, I think, topped our averages.

I really struggle with all the stuff I'm reading and hearing about how the aggressive approach won us the Ashes so we shouldn't give up on it after one bad loss. Graveney in particular should be able to understand that different conditions require a different approach. Certainly at the start of the series anyway, given the lack of acclimatisation that they get nowadays. And anyway, the whole point about Fred's batting in the Ashes was that he'd learnt not to take the aerial route so often. Remember - this was the New Mature Fred who had finally come of age as a test number 6. And then we get this. Ho hum. As I said earlier, I know it's not really fair to be harsh on a guy who bowled as brilliantly as he did, and I think he's just one example of a wider malaise within the side. Maybe the defeat will wake one or two of them up.

 

[wpdavid]

Why do cricinfo always have rubbish headlines?

I don't call a tight 22 run defeat being destroyed!

They consistantly display all the sensationalism of a pot of jam..

They destroyed England's batting today, no question.

 

[UncleTheOne]

Based on last year's series in SA, you may not get the answer from SP that you're expecting. This one's not going to go away, is it. Before the ashes, I was arguing that Fred should bat at 7, and obviously he made me look pretty silly by the end of the series. However, he does seem to leave his batting brains at Heathrow whenever he plays overseas, judging by the last 2 winters and both innings at Multan. He certainly didn't compare well with Craig White, for instance, who batted at 7 last time we were in Pakistan and, I think, topped our averages.
QUOTE]

I agree that Freddie should be batting at number 7 but when you think about it there would have to be a lot of messing about with the team to do this and I doubt anyone would agree with taking such drastic measures.

 

[Natman20]

I only got to see the highlights on the news this morning but that Shoaib Acktar yorker delivery was awesome! Leg stump and off stump gone with middle stump still standing

 

[aussie]

Based on last year's series in SA, you may not get the answer from SP that you're expecting. This one's not going to go away, is it. Before the ashes, I was arguing that Fred should bat at 7, and obviously he made me look pretty silly by the end of the series. However, he does seem to leave his batting brains at Heathrow whenever he plays overseas, judging by the last 2 winters and both innings at Multan. He certainly didn't compare well with Craig White, for instance, who batted at 7 last time we were in Pakistan and, I think, topped our averages.
QUOTE]

I agree that Freddie should be batting at number 7 but when you think about it there would have to be a lot of messing about with the team to do this and I doubt anyone would agree with taking such drastic measures.

well i think i heard either before the ashes or before the SA series last winter that Fletcher aim was to eventually have Jones batting at 6 & Fred at 7...

 

[Natman20]

Hopefully this series will get rid of the Ashes crud that is still being overtalked by some people!

 

[UncleTheOne]

well i think i heard either before the ashes or before the SA series last winter that Fletcher aim was to eventually have Jones batting at 6 & Fred at 7...

Somehow think that plan may have gone out of the window now. But then again I think I'd rather see Geraint in the side than his rival Matt Prior, you thought Jones keeping was poor, you ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[luckyeddie]

I really struggle with all the stuff I'm reading and hearing about how the aggressive approach won us the Ashes so we shouldn't give up on it after one bad loss. Graveney in particular should be able to understand that different conditions require a different approach. Certainly at the start of the series anyway, given the lack of acclimatisation that they get nowadays. And anyway, the whole point about Fred's batting in the Ashes was that he'd learnt not to take the aerial route so often. Remember - this was the New Mature Fred who had finally come of age as a test number 6. And then we get this. Ho hum. As I said earlier, I know it's not really fair to be harsh on a guy who bowled as brilliantly as he did, and I think he's just one example of a wider malaise within the side. Maybe the defeat will wake one or two of them up.

Me too.

I appreciate that Nasser Hussain's a media man now, but listening to his approach to playing on the subcontinent brings it home just how different England appear to play the game now.

Nasser suggested that the operative word is 'patience', and the tactics used in 2000 were to frustrate, to hang on in there for as long as possible and then to go for the jugular if the opportunity arose, but not before a platform had been built.

We seem to have bought in to the Aussie approach to the game 100%, and against them it paid off (because it's rare for anyone to fight fire with fire against them) but maybe a more balanced approach ought to be considered every now and again, especially in Asia.

 

[luckyeddie]

Hopefully this series will get rid of the Ashes crud that is still being overtalked by some people!

You're only saying that to deflect attention from your sheep fixation.

 

[Barney Rubble]

If I was an England selector, I'd look seriously (and this is assuming Vaughan comes back in for Collingwood) at the prospect of dropping Udal and bringing in Cook at no6 next game, with everyone from Fred downwards shifting down a place. We've proven we can take wickets as a unit without the fifth bowler, and Udal was ineffective with the ball - reinforcing the batting might be the way to go, especially if we've come to the conclusion that Fred's better off at 7. Cook at 6 would be an unfamiliar position, but he's got to come into Test cricket somehow, and better that than opening in a high-pressure 3rd Test as he probably will do otherwise.

If not, then I'd say Plunkett should replace Udal, he's done enough to earn his shot at Test cricket - I'm becoming less and less convinced that two spinners is necessary.

 

[aussie]

If I was an England selector, I'd look seriously (and this is assuming Vaughan comes back in for Collingwood) at the prospect of dropping Udal and bringing in Cook at no6 next game, with everyone from Fred downwards shifting down a place. We've proven we can take wickets as a unit without the fifth bowler, and Udal was ineffective with the ball - reinforcing the batting might be the way to go, especially if we've come to the conclusion that Fred's better off at 7. Cook at 6 would be an unfamiliar position, but he's got to come into Test cricket somehow, and better that than opening in a high-pressure 3rd Test as he probably will do otherwise.

If not, then I'd say Plunkett should replace Udal, he's done enough to earn his shot at Test cricket - I'm becoming less and less convinced that two spinners is necessary.

i more agree with the idea of Cook coming in place of Udal & batting somewhere in middle order than another seamer in Plunkett or Jimmy coming in...

 

[Natman20]

You're only saying that to deflect attention from your sheep fixation.

haha. The English really did play well in that series but I think people have overated some players from the series and are calling them greats of all-time cricket where they havnt really played very well in other series. I just enjoy watching a team that is arguably the best in test cricket get beaten by a team ranked seventh in a match. I don't think there is much difference in between most international teams of course apart from west indies, zim and ban. I think any of the other teams can win on their day and thats why I want a test cricket world cup! Although that would drag out for a long time

 

[wpdavid]

well i think i heard either before the ashes or before the SA series last winter that Fletcher aim was to eventually have Jones batting at 6 & Fred at 7...

I remember that being discussed, but I can't see it happening. In a sense, this game encapsulated Jones' batting: some lovely shots, but twice getting let down by loose defensive strokes after making a good start. And before anyone worries that I'm not giving the bowlers their due, I know they were decent deliveries, but I'm pretty persuaded by Boycott's argument that Jones should have been getting forward, especially on this wicket. If he was going to bat in the top 6, we would have seen much more from him by now.

Going back to Fred, I think that him batting at 6 is probably the best option, especially given the middle order alternatives in the squad. And we probably do need a 5 man attack.