luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Aye - we used to have to watch it week in, week out.Pothas said:
Never seen a player in the last 10 years with more guts though - I've got total respect for the dirty turncoat.
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***Official*** England in India
- Thread starter Pratters
- Start date
Never seen a player in the last 10 years with more guts though - I've got total respect for the dirty turncoat.
What-A-Player
School Boy/Girl Captain
So What abt ODI's now
Any Predictions etc?
I feel England will carry the momentum (but plz dont quote me on this)
Any Predictions etc?
I feel England will carry the momentum (but plz dont quote me on this)
Well, the first step is to recognize the problems. Then, return to the fundamentals.What-A-Player said:
1) Do not play with 5 bowlers when you have on inexperienced and brittle line up. So, VVS should have been included and a fast bowler or Bhajji dropped.
2) Damien Martyn was dropped for many years when he played a Dhoni like shot many many years ago. DROP players who are not disciplined enough for Test Cricket and do not perform rather than succumbing to their star like status.
3) Yuvraj is a one-day player and will never fare well in adverse Test playing conditions. Kaif has a much better chance and he needs to be cultivated.
4) I have no idea why Akash Chopra was dropped - he was a great foil for Sehwag and actually made Sehwag a better player.
5) Sehwag - do not let him get away with "That's the way I play" - which is a euphemism for "I am too lazy to be disciplined" - look at his fitness level. He is a SLOW mover in the field. DROP him and make him go play domestic cricket, if only to teach him a lesson.
6) All players who are dropped (including fitness reasons) MUST perform in domestic cricket before being selected again.
7) DROP Tendulkar until he shows consistent performance in domestic cricket (If u ask that of Ganguly why not him ? After all he is more injury plagued than Ganguly) Bring Kaif in.
8) Make Kumble vice captian - not Sehwag or Yuvraj
9) Hold Greg accountable for current performances by asking the tough questions
The TEAM:
========
Chopra
Sehwag (alternate Jaffer)
Dravid (captain - and the real God of Indian cricket)
Kaif
VVS
Raina
Dhoni/Parthiv
Kumble (vice captain)
Harbhajan/Powar
2 out of Sreesanth/Pathan/Munaf (zaheer as backup)
neutralguy
U19 Debutant
Great post justtool mate.
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
That's a very interesting point - the Ganguly bit.JustTool said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
And from the West Indies perspective, without that knock, we'd have won the series I think and who knows what would've happened.Pedro Delgado said:
Dominic Cork is still alive?
What-A-Player
School Boy/Girl Captain
Well, the first step is to recognize the problems. Then, return to the fundamentals.
1)Do not play with 5 bowlers when you have on inexperienced and brittle line up. So, VVS should have been included and a fast bowler or Bhajji dropped.
First, everyone crictized Indian team for not playing 5 bowlers..then they do and fail ( a part of experimenting )
2) Damien Martyn was dropped for many years when he played a Dhoni like shot many many years ago. DROP players who are not disciplined enough for Test Cricket and do not perform rather than succumbing to their star like status.
Dhoni is a wicket keeper too and India doesn't have abudance of Dhoni type hitters
3) Yuvraj is a one-day player and will never fare well in adverse Test playing conditions. Kaif has a much better chance and he needs to be cultivated.
Agreed
4) I have no idea why Akash Chopra was dropped - he was a great foil for Sehwag and actually made Sehwag a better player.
Whats wrong with Jaffer, he has the domestic record to be in the team.
5) Sehwag - do not let him get away with "That's the way I play" - which is a euphemism for "I am too lazy to be disciplined" - look at his fitness level. He is a SLOW mover in the field. DROP him and make him go play domestic cricket, if only to teach him a lesson.
Going back to domestic games will give him the same free hits but wont help to tackle those bouncers - its the application, not his batting. Agree on his weight issue
6) All players who are dropped (including fitness reasons) MUST perform in domestic cricket before being selected again.
Sure, but one at a time
7) DROP Tendulkar until he shows consistent performance in domestic cricket (If u ask that of Ganguly why not him ? After all he is more injury plagued than Ganguly) Bring Kaif in.
Agreed
8) Make Kumble vice captian - not Sehwag or Yuvraj
Now where did this come from?
9) Hold Greg accountable for current performances by asking the tough questions
By email or interview?
The TEAM:
========
Chopra
Sehwag (alternate Jaffer)
Dravid (captain - and the real God of Indian cricket)
Kaif
VVS
Raina
Dhoni/Parthiv
Kumble (vice captain)
Harbhajan/Powar
2 out of Sreesanth/Pathan/Munaf (zaheer as backup)
1)Do not play with 5 bowlers when you have on inexperienced and brittle line up. So, VVS should have been included and a fast bowler or Bhajji dropped.
First, everyone crictized Indian team for not playing 5 bowlers..then they do and fail ( a part of experimenting )
2) Damien Martyn was dropped for many years when he played a Dhoni like shot many many years ago. DROP players who are not disciplined enough for Test Cricket and do not perform rather than succumbing to their star like status.
Dhoni is a wicket keeper too and India doesn't have abudance of Dhoni type hitters
3) Yuvraj is a one-day player and will never fare well in adverse Test playing conditions. Kaif has a much better chance and he needs to be cultivated.
Agreed
4) I have no idea why Akash Chopra was dropped - he was a great foil for Sehwag and actually made Sehwag a better player.
Whats wrong with Jaffer, he has the domestic record to be in the team.
5) Sehwag - do not let him get away with "That's the way I play" - which is a euphemism for "I am too lazy to be disciplined" - look at his fitness level. He is a SLOW mover in the field. DROP him and make him go play domestic cricket, if only to teach him a lesson.
Going back to domestic games will give him the same free hits but wont help to tackle those bouncers - its the application, not his batting. Agree on his weight issue
6) All players who are dropped (including fitness reasons) MUST perform in domestic cricket before being selected again.
Sure, but one at a time
7) DROP Tendulkar until he shows consistent performance in domestic cricket (If u ask that of Ganguly why not him ? After all he is more injury plagued than Ganguly) Bring Kaif in.
Agreed
8) Make Kumble vice captian - not Sehwag or Yuvraj
Now where did this come from?
9) Hold Greg accountable for current performances by asking the tough questions
By email or interview?
The TEAM:
========
Chopra
Sehwag (alternate Jaffer)
Dravid (captain - and the real God of Indian cricket)
Kaif
VVS
Raina
Dhoni/Parthiv
Kumble (vice captain)
Harbhajan/Powar
2 out of Sreesanth/Pathan/Munaf (zaheer as backup)
adharcric
International Coach
Solid post JustTool, my respect for you just balooned considerably. You can contribute so much to this forum if you post like this instead of being negative and pessimistic all the time and abusing other posters. Well done.
Now, addressing the (very valid) issues that you brought up.
1) Playing 5 bowlers
Eventually, we might have to play 5 bowlers to compete with the likes of Australia and England. Yet, we can only afford to do that if we can count on the top 6 (not just Dravid) to perform consistently with the bat. With Tendulkar out of form, Sehwag out of form AND shape and Dhoni inexperienced, facing the likes of Flintoff and Hoggard, we can't afford to go in with 5 bowlers. Sooner or later, we had to figure this out, and we learnt our lesson (hopefully) the hard way. Honestly, would we have missed Chawla or Pathan with the ball in the 2nd and 3rd tests, respectively? Quantity will not cover up for quality ... things are looking better now with the emergence of Munaf and Sreesanth.
2) Dropping players who lack the discipline for Test Cricket (ie Dhoni)
Dhoni should really get punished somehow for that idiotic shot. Still, he showed a great deal of application in the 1st innings, so the verdict on his discipline is not clear yet. He should get the message but be persisted with for at least one series. Let Dinesh Karthik and Parthiv Patel provide some pressure now.
3) Kaif is more suited to Test Cricket than Yuvraj
Again, how can you ignore Yuvraj's knock in the 3rd Test against Pakistan? I'm also a big fan of Kaif because of the application and work ethic he shows, but a talent like Yuvraj can't be ruled out so quickly. He's shown way too much promise. Let's see how much he learns and how well he does against the likes of Edwards, Bradshaw, Pollock, Nel and Ntini.
4) Aakash Chopra
Let's be realistic. Chopra was a solid grinder when he opened for India, but his being called up isn't likely at all. He wasn't even selected for the North Zone Duleep Trophy squad this year, a national call-up is far off I would think. Jaffer and Gambhir are not bad options and Gambhir is a good close-in fielder. Now, I'm genuinely hoping that Cheteshwar Pujara develops very rapidly and happens to be a short-leg fielder. Dheeraj Jadhav is also a rather defensive batsman who can apparently stay at the crease for long periods of time, not sure where he fields though. Give Jaffer a run with Gambhir on his tail.
5) Sehwag's laziness, poor fitness, indiscipline
Sehwag's poor technique was exposed by Hoggard and co. and he seemed to make decent adjustments at Mohali; he needs to work things out if he wants to have any success with top-class bowling attacks. He is terribly out of shape and something really needs to be done about that. Unless he scores a century every match, I don't want a man with a protruding belly despite being "one for the future" (only 27) in the field. If he improves his fitness, he shouldn't be dropped yet, let's see what he does overseas in the near future. If he doesn't improve his fitness, take him out of action and give him a strict fitness regimen to follow (which honestly should be going on right now with Ian Frazier anyways...).
6) Dropped players must perform before being selected again
Obviously, and this hasn't been too much of a problem in my opinion. Zaheer was brought back after impressive domestic performances and still managed to disappoint. Ganguly's was an exceptional case which will defy reason and logic in many aspects simply because it was a controversy poorly handled and resulted in a disaster.
7) Drop Tendulkar just like Ganguly was dropped
The final time Ganguly was dropped, it was more because he had become a distraction to the team than because he wasn't good enough to bat for India in test matches. In one-dayers he's too slow and indisciplined in the field, but purely based on performance, he did well enough in Pakistan to stay in the test side. Tendulkar was really starting to come under fire but now he's helped the selectors out by having this shoulder injury and operation. Hopefully he can find form again after that, but I'm not sure we can waste the precious remaining moments of his career on the domestic circuit. Just pray that he strikes form after his recovery and bats like the champion he is before he can call it a day.
8) Make Kumble vice-captain, not Sehwag or Yuvraj
Not a big issue, but yes he does deserve to be the vice-captain. Dravid is a real fighter, but Kumble is probably even more of a figher than Dravid ... now that says a lot. Consider Kaif as well, if he becomes a regular.
9) Hold Greg accountable
Yes, bring him to cricketweb. People here know so much more about cricket than most others in the world do. Especially those selectors.
TEAM INDIA
Jaffer
Sehwag / Gambhir (subject to the former's fitness)
Dravid*
Laxman
Yuvraj
Kaif / Raina / bowler (Kaif for now, if he struggles -> Raina, if the top 5 produce consistently against the Proteas attack -> bowler)
Dhoni+ / Karthik / Patel (Dhoni for now, more rashness -> Karthik/Patel, hopefully they are in good touch)
Pathan / Harbhajan / Powar (Pathan overseas, turning track -> Harbhajan, Bhajji loses form again -> Powar)
Kumble
Sreesanth
Munaf
Now, addressing the (very valid) issues that you brought up.
1) Playing 5 bowlers
Eventually, we might have to play 5 bowlers to compete with the likes of Australia and England. Yet, we can only afford to do that if we can count on the top 6 (not just Dravid) to perform consistently with the bat. With Tendulkar out of form, Sehwag out of form AND shape and Dhoni inexperienced, facing the likes of Flintoff and Hoggard, we can't afford to go in with 5 bowlers. Sooner or later, we had to figure this out, and we learnt our lesson (hopefully) the hard way. Honestly, would we have missed Chawla or Pathan with the ball in the 2nd and 3rd tests, respectively? Quantity will not cover up for quality ... things are looking better now with the emergence of Munaf and Sreesanth.
2) Dropping players who lack the discipline for Test Cricket (ie Dhoni)
Dhoni should really get punished somehow for that idiotic shot. Still, he showed a great deal of application in the 1st innings, so the verdict on his discipline is not clear yet. He should get the message but be persisted with for at least one series. Let Dinesh Karthik and Parthiv Patel provide some pressure now.
3) Kaif is more suited to Test Cricket than Yuvraj
Again, how can you ignore Yuvraj's knock in the 3rd Test against Pakistan? I'm also a big fan of Kaif because of the application and work ethic he shows, but a talent like Yuvraj can't be ruled out so quickly. He's shown way too much promise. Let's see how much he learns and how well he does against the likes of Edwards, Bradshaw, Pollock, Nel and Ntini.
4) Aakash Chopra
Let's be realistic. Chopra was a solid grinder when he opened for India, but his being called up isn't likely at all. He wasn't even selected for the North Zone Duleep Trophy squad this year, a national call-up is far off I would think. Jaffer and Gambhir are not bad options and Gambhir is a good close-in fielder. Now, I'm genuinely hoping that Cheteshwar Pujara develops very rapidly and happens to be a short-leg fielder. Dheeraj Jadhav is also a rather defensive batsman who can apparently stay at the crease for long periods of time, not sure where he fields though. Give Jaffer a run with Gambhir on his tail.
5) Sehwag's laziness, poor fitness, indiscipline
Sehwag's poor technique was exposed by Hoggard and co. and he seemed to make decent adjustments at Mohali; he needs to work things out if he wants to have any success with top-class bowling attacks. He is terribly out of shape and something really needs to be done about that. Unless he scores a century every match, I don't want a man with a protruding belly despite being "one for the future" (only 27) in the field. If he improves his fitness, he shouldn't be dropped yet, let's see what he does overseas in the near future. If he doesn't improve his fitness, take him out of action and give him a strict fitness regimen to follow (which honestly should be going on right now with Ian Frazier anyways...).
6) Dropped players must perform before being selected again
Obviously, and this hasn't been too much of a problem in my opinion. Zaheer was brought back after impressive domestic performances and still managed to disappoint. Ganguly's was an exceptional case which will defy reason and logic in many aspects simply because it was a controversy poorly handled and resulted in a disaster.
7) Drop Tendulkar just like Ganguly was dropped
The final time Ganguly was dropped, it was more because he had become a distraction to the team than because he wasn't good enough to bat for India in test matches. In one-dayers he's too slow and indisciplined in the field, but purely based on performance, he did well enough in Pakistan to stay in the test side. Tendulkar was really starting to come under fire but now he's helped the selectors out by having this shoulder injury and operation. Hopefully he can find form again after that, but I'm not sure we can waste the precious remaining moments of his career on the domestic circuit. Just pray that he strikes form after his recovery and bats like the champion he is before he can call it a day.
8) Make Kumble vice-captain, not Sehwag or Yuvraj
Not a big issue, but yes he does deserve to be the vice-captain. Dravid is a real fighter, but Kumble is probably even more of a figher than Dravid ... now that says a lot. Consider Kaif as well, if he becomes a regular.
9) Hold Greg accountable
Yes, bring him to cricketweb. People here know so much more about cricket than most others in the world do. Especially those selectors.
TEAM INDIA
Jaffer
Sehwag / Gambhir (subject to the former's fitness)
Dravid*
Laxman
Yuvraj
Kaif / Raina / bowler (Kaif for now, if he struggles -> Raina, if the top 5 produce consistently against the Proteas attack -> bowler)
Dhoni+ / Karthik / Patel (Dhoni for now, more rashness -> Karthik/Patel, hopefully they are in good touch)
Pathan / Harbhajan / Powar (Pathan overseas, turning track -> Harbhajan, Bhajji loses form again -> Powar)
Kumble
Sreesanth
Munaf
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Advice taken. Couldn't have said it better myself.adharcric said:
I am a hopelessly obsessed Indian & Australian cricket fan. I love Indian cricket and I admire Australian cricket (and Andrew Flintoff and some real awesome Pakistan talent).So I get carried away when I wish that Indian cricket was less regionally biased and more performance oriented.
I agree with most of your points especially re: Ganguly. He had dug himself a real hole. He became too obssessed with himself - but let me tell you he raised Indian cricket competitiveness to a different level. Both Rahul and a lot of the younger players learned a lot from his aggression.
However, Tendulkar's case is very baffling.
For example, why the heck did the news about his medical problem come out on the 4th day right before he was going to bat. Amazing. Fixed ? Very very odd timing. Handed a major pyschological advantage to England and also probably put the Indian dressing room in a sour mood.
I am tired of everyone being obssessed with his medical problems the last few years. It is too distracting for Indian cricket.
Last edited:
RolledOver
U19 Debutant
My Indian test team would be,
Sehwag-- Come on guys, he's a proven class player
Jaffer----- has shown promise , should be retained.
Dravid (C) He's the big man.
Tendulkar-I think he can continue for atleast 1 more yr
Yuvraj-- Great batsman, brilliant fielder.
Kaif ---- Should never have been dropped
Dhoni (VC) making him vice captain will make him more responsible.
Pathan--Our number one allrounder
Munaf---the hero & the terror.
Kumble- What a warrior he is.
Sreesanth-Great talent.
rest
--Powar
--VRV
--Raina
--Laxman
Sehwag-- Come on guys, he's a proven class player
Jaffer----- has shown promise , should be retained.
Dravid (C) He's the big man.
Tendulkar-I think he can continue for atleast 1 more yr
Yuvraj-- Great batsman, brilliant fielder.
Kaif ---- Should never have been dropped
Dhoni (VC) making him vice captain will make him more responsible.
Pathan--Our number one allrounder
Munaf---the hero & the terror.
Kumble- What a warrior he is.
Sreesanth-Great talent.
rest
--Powar
--VRV
--Raina
--Laxman
adharcric
International Coach
My Indian test team would be,
Sehwag-- Come on guys, he's a proven class player
Yes he is, but Hoggard made him look classless. That can't happen if we want to be a world-beating team.
Jaffer----- has shown promise , should be retained.
Yes. Make him field at short leg as well.
Dravid (C) He's the big man.
Very big.
Tendulkar-I think he can continue for atleast 1 more yr
He's out for now so Laxman at #4.
Yuvraj-- Great batsman, brilliant fielder.
Yes, but he needs to prove that against top opposition in tests more often.
Kaif ---- Should never have been dropped
Laxman got the axe, why not Kaif? Speaking of class, Laxman has just as much as Sehwag.
Dhoni (VC) making him vice captain will make him more responsible.
Nope. If he can't handle the responsiblity of his own batting, he shouldn't be trusted with anything else either. Let him focus on one thing first. Or wait, two things. Can he keep?
Pathan--Our number one allrounder
Without doubt, but he needs to hit a consistent line and keep it above 80 mph.
Munaf---the hero & the terror.
Yes!
Kumble- What a warrior he is.
Hell yes!
Sreesanth-Great talent.
Damn right!
rest
--Powar (watch out Bhajji)
--VRV (pace giant from my hometown)
--Raina (my boy)
--Laxman (class)
Sehwag-- Come on guys, he's a proven class player
Yes he is, but Hoggard made him look classless. That can't happen if we want to be a world-beating team.
Jaffer----- has shown promise , should be retained.
Yes. Make him field at short leg as well.
Dravid (C) He's the big man.
Very big.
Tendulkar-I think he can continue for atleast 1 more yr
He's out for now so Laxman at #4.
Yuvraj-- Great batsman, brilliant fielder.
Yes, but he needs to prove that against top opposition in tests more often.
Kaif ---- Should never have been dropped
Laxman got the axe, why not Kaif? Speaking of class, Laxman has just as much as Sehwag.
Dhoni (VC) making him vice captain will make him more responsible.
Nope. If he can't handle the responsiblity of his own batting, he shouldn't be trusted with anything else either. Let him focus on one thing first. Or wait, two things. Can he keep?
Pathan--Our number one allrounder
Without doubt, but he needs to hit a consistent line and keep it above 80 mph.
Munaf---the hero & the terror.
Yes!
Kumble- What a warrior he is.
Hell yes!
Sreesanth-Great talent.
Damn right!
rest
--Powar (watch out Bhajji)
--VRV (pace giant from my hometown)
--Raina (my boy)
--Laxman (class)
tooextracool
International Coach
id go with:wpdavid said:
Solanki,Prior, Shah, KP, Freddie, Collingwood, Jones, Blackwell, Mahmood, Hoggard and Anderson.
plunkett for me is clearly not good enough, and i think this time hoggard has actually earned his place in the ODI side compared to last time(even though i still have my doubts about whether he will succeed). the reason i have solanki in there is because i think on his day he can be a very fine ODI player, cant say that i can say the same about strauss.
tooextracool
International Coach
i wouldnt choose either. if it ever comes down between those 2 outside the subcontinent id pick anderson.alternative said:
tooextracool
International Coach
i actually agree with you to an extent. yes it was a great victory, but to put it up there with the ashes is just a touch ludicrous IMO. England's batting problems havent disappeared just because they won a game in the subcontinent.Nishant said:
tooextracool
International Coach
and its quite likely that we would have won the test in bangalore last time in what was a very similar situation if it were not for bad light. wonder how much that victory would have been rated given what happened after that.Neil Pickup said:
tooextracool
International Coach
they were bowled out for 83 by the not so famous NZ bowling attack about 7 years ago......wpdavid said:
tooextracool
International Coach
shaun udal,monty panesar and liam plunkett, and thats just the test match list.greg said: