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***Official*** England in India
- Thread starter Pratters
- Start date
tooextracool
International Coach
he took 3 wickets at 43 a piece. believe it or not, you're not going to succeed as a spinner in test match cricket by bowling the same ball over and over again, especially if you cant use drift effectively enough. how can you show promise when you have no variety in your bowling i dont know. he failed miserably on a pitch where udal took 4/14(albeit without bowling too many wicket taking deliveries). cant quite get any worse than that IMO.adharcric said:
adharcric
International Coach
Figures don't mean everything. He bowled rather well, especially for a debutant. Put some more variation in there and he can become a decent spinner. The fielding and batting will be a long-term issue though. I must say he lost his way at Mumbai though, the one wicket where he really should've capitalized.marc71178 said:
tooextracool
International Coach
it would probably depend on the pitch IMO.i hope that giles will be fully match fit for the summer though(by playing domestic cricket), because he provides far more versatilily,marc71178 said:
tooextracool
International Coach
so what may i ask did he do that impressed you? clearly he has no variety.adharcric said:
in the one test where he got a chance to turn the ball big, he turned it less than udal and got hammered. the only thing that he did all series was bowl accurately(and he even lost that in the last test), but if a finger spinner doesnt manage that then he'd have to be in the hauritz category.
adharcric
International Coach
well yeah he did blow it in the third test, but he bowled with pretty good control in the first two (esp. nagpur) and got some to turn considerably. again, as we mentioned earlier, he's a bit too predictable. anyways, i don't really care that much about monty as he's an english spinner and not an indian one, so whatever.tooextracool said:
Barney Rubble
International Coach
I'm not writing him off. He's got a massive amount of talent, but to be a successful Test player he needs to do what Afridi's done and grow a brain. Chances are that'll happen, just not for a while yet.Dasa said:
As for cowardly, it most certainly was. His team were relying on him to get them out of a massive hole, in a very high-pressure situation - he shirked his responsibility and played a shot he knew was likely to get him out, simply because he would rather impress a crowd for ten minutes than play for his team for three hours. It was blatantly obvious what was required of him in the situation, and he did the exact opposite. Inexcusable.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
This Test match has raised several talking points, so here's what I have to say about them, as a fan. Predictably, this new-look, ever-changing Indian team has copped a lot more flak than some steady Indian teams of the recent past who didn't do far better. I've supported what they're doing so far, so I'll do my bit to defend them.
The toss call was a bit strange, but given the selection of five bowlers, their form, as well as the batsmen being a little out of form, made it a decent decision. That can't be a major reason for the defeat– come to think of it, that was not an issue at all. The English played well, while the Indians played rubbish.
The Indian fielders dropped one catch too many, and that was inexcusable. You're taking big risks in selection, strategy and against a superioir team. They were giving catching practice, but the Indians didn't seem to want to catch, and seemed to have other things on thier minds. They may want to forget this in a hurry, but catches win matches, and drops may lose some. That said, the field positioning was a bit strange, and we find too many groundfielders were in close-in catching positions, and both styles are vastly different.
The people in charge shouldn't be criticised for playing five bowlers in the team. Rather, they should be complimented for this selection. Look at the recent performances of the Indians as a bowling unit. They're good upto a point, but when the wickets are not coming, they're only bowling dud overs. They get tired and start bowing rubbish, and bating sides have capitalised on this. All successful bowling teams have five bowlers, bar Australia, and now, even they're feeling the pinch, so Symonds bowls more often now. The batting may have problems, but you have Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid and Virender Sehwag. If they can't do the job, what can some extra off the bench do to make up? The teamwill be a bowler short, and he can't even bowl!
The Endulkar crisis continues to irritate serious cricket fans. Frankly, he's just out of form, and on his day, he can be devastating, and years of performance have proven this. However, his recent slumps have resulted in defeats, and that may raise questions about his worth in the team. He doesn't have to retire, nor do the selectors have to do a Trevor Hohns and drop him permanently, but he needs a little break to rediscover form. It won't do him, or the team, any harm, and when he returns, he will return with a bang, as he did last time against the Lankans. This is a world-class batting lineup, so the selectors don't need to imitate their counterparts from over the order and do a total clean up, but a little shake-up is needed.
Mahendra Singh Dhoni's foolhardy innings deserves absolutely no praise. The English dropped a few catches, especially Panesar. But to give him so many chances is foolish. Dhoni may be the only wicketkeeper-batsman in India whose batting counts, but he doesn't need to show who's boss. He just needs to perform like one. He wasn't promoted to number six to clown around, and he should realise that.
Harbhajan's performance was a disaster. No doubt about that, as it is reflected in his average of 48 in three matches, with just eight wickets. He seems a temperamental off-spinner who never listens. Experts tell him to bowl slower, mix straighter ones with turners and use that infamous away-going delivery to the minimum, to improve strike rate. But he never listens. When we all know that he needs to flight the ball more to make the batsmen play, he would complain that a crow would catch the ball. His defensive bowling, however, is making catching the ball difficult, even for his team's fielders. Tha said, he is the second-highest wicket-taker for India, after Anil Kumble, and has over 200 wickets– none of the others even reached 100. Think about that.
The decision to drop Gautam Gambhir was just plain stupid. It cost them a series in Pakistan, and one more against England, at home. What was the need to drop an opener responsible for so many rapid yet steady starts so far? He understood his partner well, and so did Sehwag, when they came out together. Not scored any runs, you say? Well, Dravid just capitalised on two flat pitches, and fell short on one that wasn't so flat, while Jaffer didn't do a thing in this series to suggest that he's good enough to dislodge Gambhir even for a series, let alone permanently. He seems to be on another planet, and the lack of understanding between partners is obvious, since they have not crossed 50 even once, at home! His style of batting makes Dravid look like an explosive batsman and won't win too many Test matches.
They may not be in the best of form in Test matches now, but remember– this is a new-look Indian team. The conventional Indian teams of the recent past haven't done far better. The people in charge of this team are taking risks, so you can't expect them to be safe all the time. The bigger victories matter more, when they come. A few things are wrong with the team, and once they're addressed, you'll see a better performance from this team, hopefully in the forthcoming tour of the West Indies.
The toss call was a bit strange, but given the selection of five bowlers, their form, as well as the batsmen being a little out of form, made it a decent decision. That can't be a major reason for the defeat– come to think of it, that was not an issue at all. The English played well, while the Indians played rubbish.
The Indian fielders dropped one catch too many, and that was inexcusable. You're taking big risks in selection, strategy and against a superioir team. They were giving catching practice, but the Indians didn't seem to want to catch, and seemed to have other things on thier minds. They may want to forget this in a hurry, but catches win matches, and drops may lose some. That said, the field positioning was a bit strange, and we find too many groundfielders were in close-in catching positions, and both styles are vastly different.
The people in charge shouldn't be criticised for playing five bowlers in the team. Rather, they should be complimented for this selection. Look at the recent performances of the Indians as a bowling unit. They're good upto a point, but when the wickets are not coming, they're only bowling dud overs. They get tired and start bowing rubbish, and bating sides have capitalised on this. All successful bowling teams have five bowlers, bar Australia, and now, even they're feeling the pinch, so Symonds bowls more often now. The batting may have problems, but you have Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid and Virender Sehwag. If they can't do the job, what can some extra off the bench do to make up? The teamwill be a bowler short, and he can't even bowl!
The Endulkar crisis continues to irritate serious cricket fans. Frankly, he's just out of form, and on his day, he can be devastating, and years of performance have proven this. However, his recent slumps have resulted in defeats, and that may raise questions about his worth in the team. He doesn't have to retire, nor do the selectors have to do a Trevor Hohns and drop him permanently, but he needs a little break to rediscover form. It won't do him, or the team, any harm, and when he returns, he will return with a bang, as he did last time against the Lankans. This is a world-class batting lineup, so the selectors don't need to imitate their counterparts from over the order and do a total clean up, but a little shake-up is needed.
Mahendra Singh Dhoni's foolhardy innings deserves absolutely no praise. The English dropped a few catches, especially Panesar. But to give him so many chances is foolish. Dhoni may be the only wicketkeeper-batsman in India whose batting counts, but he doesn't need to show who's boss. He just needs to perform like one. He wasn't promoted to number six to clown around, and he should realise that.
Harbhajan's performance was a disaster. No doubt about that, as it is reflected in his average of 48 in three matches, with just eight wickets. He seems a temperamental off-spinner who never listens. Experts tell him to bowl slower, mix straighter ones with turners and use that infamous away-going delivery to the minimum, to improve strike rate. But he never listens. When we all know that he needs to flight the ball more to make the batsmen play, he would complain that a crow would catch the ball. His defensive bowling, however, is making catching the ball difficult, even for his team's fielders. Tha said, he is the second-highest wicket-taker for India, after Anil Kumble, and has over 200 wickets– none of the others even reached 100. Think about that.
The decision to drop Gautam Gambhir was just plain stupid. It cost them a series in Pakistan, and one more against England, at home. What was the need to drop an opener responsible for so many rapid yet steady starts so far? He understood his partner well, and so did Sehwag, when they came out together. Not scored any runs, you say? Well, Dravid just capitalised on two flat pitches, and fell short on one that wasn't so flat, while Jaffer didn't do a thing in this series to suggest that he's good enough to dislodge Gambhir even for a series, let alone permanently. He seems to be on another planet, and the lack of understanding between partners is obvious, since they have not crossed 50 even once, at home! His style of batting makes Dravid look like an explosive batsman and won't win too many Test matches.
They may not be in the best of form in Test matches now, but remember– this is a new-look Indian team. The conventional Indian teams of the recent past haven't done far better. The people in charge of this team are taking risks, so you can't expect them to be safe all the time. The bigger victories matter more, when they come. A few things are wrong with the team, and once they're addressed, you'll see a better performance from this team, hopefully in the forthcoming tour of the West Indies.
Swervy
International Captain
This does suggest that maybe India over the last few years then have been vastly over rated, which is something I think a few of us have suspected (some more vocally than others).Arjun said:
I think India have two real positives for the future: Munaf, and Sreesanth...but the batting to me looks about as fragile as I have seen for quite a long time.
Anyway, I should hope India will perform better vs West Indies, anything short of a convincing win will again be consiered a failure.
adharcric
International Coach
Yes they have. Those Indian teams relied on a famed batting lineup which wasn't always a good bet to perform overseas against top opposition. Furthermore, the seam attack was plain pathetic. With this bunch, overseas success becomes a possibility. This disaster just might turn out to be the HUGE wake-up call India have needed for years .. as an underachieving team full of talent.Swervy said:
Dasa
International Vice-Captain
You can't really say you know what he was thinking playing the shot - that's going into Richard territory.Barney Rubble said:
Seriously though, I hardly think it was to please the crowd....I'm sure Dhoni backed himself to play the shot well enough. Sure, it shows perhaps a lack of thinking behind the shot and definitely a lack of maturity, but it isn't cowardice. Most of the time, when Dhoni goes for a big hit it pays off...I doubt he does it just to please the crowd, especially at the expense of the team. You'd be hard pressed to find any international cricketer who does that.
adharcric
International Coach
Agreed. I really doubt Dhoni is a selfish cricketer after seeing the way he has produced perfectly timed run chases in one-dayers lately. Inexperienced and irresponsible at times, yes, but selfish, don't think so. Far from a coward, the guy smacked Freddie for two fours after Freddie smacked em in the head.Dasa said:You can't really say you know what he was thinking playing the shot - that's going into Richard territory.
Seriously though, I hardly think it was to please the crowd....I'm sure Dhoni backed himself to play the shot well enough. Sure, it shows perhaps a lack of thinking behind the shot and definitely a lack of maturity, but it isn't cowardice. Most of the time, when Dhoni goes for a big hit it pays off...I doubt he does it just to please the crowd, especially at the expense of the team. You'd be hard pressed to find any international cricketer who does that.
adharcric
International Coach
Combined India-England Test Team
Based on performances in the test series, here goes.
W Jaffer, A Cook, R Dravid, O Shah/M Kaif, P Collingwood, A Flintoff*, A Kumble, G Jones+, M Hoggard, S Sreesanth, M Patel
interesting that dravid, flintoff and kumble are the only ones generally expected to be in this XI ... what a series
your thoughts?
Based on performances in the test series, here goes.
W Jaffer, A Cook, R Dravid, O Shah/M Kaif, P Collingwood, A Flintoff*, A Kumble, G Jones+, M Hoggard, S Sreesanth, M Patel
interesting that dravid, flintoff and kumble are the only ones generally expected to be in this XI ... what a series
your thoughts?
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
No Udal?
