***Official*** England in India

[honestbharani]

He did bowl a couple of very good spells when he ran through Pakistan and Bangladesh recently. But I agree, I do think someone else might deserve the top spot. Warney hasn't been the same since the Ashes (perhaps because of better bowling from the seamers more than anything else). Maybe that is why Murali went past him in the rankings.

 

[Jono]

Dhoni being no. 1 is so ludicrous it's not funny.

Ponting is miles ahead of any batsman in either form of the game.

Is Ponting a better ODI batsman than Dhoni? Yes.

Statstically over the past 12 months has Ponting been a better ODI batsman than Dhoni? Possibly, but its definitely up for debate and Dhoni has been an asbolute machine in ODIs lately. Since the rankings are entirely based on statistics I hardly think its 'ludicrous'.

Then again you think Dravid's not a good ODI batsman so that puts your comment in perspective.

 

[DanielFullard]

Dhoni for me isn't a better batsmen than KP

 

[Jono]

That's again a discussion where both sides have merit (particularly since KP has done it in far more varying conditions than Dhoni has) but statistics over the last 6-8 months point to Dhoni, especially since he's gone on with his starts. And since that is what the ICC ratings take into account, recent form, Dhoni at #1 doesn't surprise me too much. I thought Ponting would probably hold that mantle (and he'll probably take it back after the Bangladesh series) but I knew Dhoni was closing in on him every ODI he played.

If I had to choose between Hussey, KP and Dhoni I'd probably choose in that order (not taking age and future potential into account, but just how good they are now) but there is a reason Dhoni is above those two. He's scoring more runs than KP and Hussey (mainly thanks to Dhoni getting chances higher in the order more often) and he's going on with his starts, which KP just point blank isn't doing.

 

[Jono]

Comparison between the two since 1 June 2005. That date was chosen just to take into account the last 9-10 months or so, which would give a good estimation of 'current form' which is what the rankings looks at.

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St

unfiltered            42  1372 183*  52.76   2   8   -   -       -    -  39  9
                      30  1179 116   65.50   3   8   1  1/4    26.00  0  16  0
filtered              33  1092 183*  60.66   1   8   -   -       -    -  31  6
                      19   621  91*  44.35   0   6   1  1/4     4.00  0  10  0

Obviously overall KP has a better average with one more century, and has proven himself in more varied conditions than Dhoni as I said, and hence why I'd probably choose him ahead of Dhoni. But on current form Dhoni does beat him averaging 16 more than KP!

 

[silentstriker]

Dhoni for me isn't a better batsmen than KP

Yes, he is. If you go on stats. Just like KP is better than Ponting. If you go on stats.


In reality, Ponting easily outpaces both KP and Dhoni. And KP is slighly ahead of Dhoni as an ODI batsman.

 

[marc71178]

If I had to choose between Hussey, KP and Dhoni I'd probably choose in that order (not taking age and future potential into account, but just how good they are now) but there is a reason Dhoni is above those two. He's scoring more runs than KP and Hussey (mainly thanks to Dhoni getting chances higher in the order more often) and he's going on with his starts, which KP just point blank isn't doing.

Can't we be greedy and have them all in the middle order?

 

[DanielFullard]

I'm with you SilentStriker.....its easy to get carried away with pure stats and many fans do. For me, whether its in tandem with stats or not, Pietersen is the best and most enjoyable OD batsmen in the world and Pointing is head and shoulders above the rest in Test cricket

 

[Jono]

Can't we be greedy and have them all in the middle order?

Lol, I was chatting to my mate the other day about how amazing the past 2 years has been with the emergence of these 3 ODI batting machines, and said if he could produce a better ODI middle order than Hussey, Dhoni and KP. He had Ponting, Dravid and Inzy, which is a fair middle order.

My only response was that his team loses for being too old

 

[kvemuri]

And KP is slighly ahead of Dhoni as an ODI batsman.

i think both are equally talented batsmen and are on an even kneel, except the one place where Dhoni (in ODIs) out paces KP is seems to be in patience, Dhoni plays according to situation, KP is more on the side of a Shahid Afridi in my opinion. IMO, KP has shown a higher penchant to play a lose shot than Dhoni after both batsmen are set to a big score.

 

[open365]

i think both are equally talented batsmen and are on an even kneel, except the one place where Dhoni (in ODIs) out paces KP is seems to be in patience, Dhoni plays according to situation, KP is more on the side of a Shahid Afridi in my opinion. IMO, KP has shown a higher penchant to play a lose shot than Dhoni after both batsmen are set to a big score.

Yeh, i think KP has more bravado/arrogance than Dhoni, but sitll both fantastic players.

 

[silentstriker]

I'm with you SilentStriker.....its easy to get carried away with pure stats and many fans do. For me, whether its in tandem with stats or not, Pietersen is the best and most enjoyable OD batsmen in the world and Pointing is head and shoulders above the rest in Test cricket

When you say 'most enjoyable', thats a very subjective choice, and I have no problem with that. 'Best' is also a subjective choice, but this does need stats to back up your claim. I can't say Raina is the best batsman in the world right now, and expect not to be laughed off the forum. Just because he is fun to watch, does not mean that he can compete for the title of being the best. Objective stats are absolutely essential when making an argument of that nature.

With that in mind, KP is certainly not the best ODI batsman in the world right now. If he is the most enjoyable to you, well thats fine. But by any objective analysis, he is certainly not the best.

 

[social]

Comparison between the two since 1 June 2005. That date was chosen just to take into account the last 9-10 months or so, which would give a good estimation of 'current form' which is what the rankings looks at.

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St

unfiltered            42  1372 183*  52.76   2   8   -   -       -    -  39  9
                      30  1179 116   65.50   3   8   1  1/4    26.00  0  16  0
filtered              33  1092 183*  60.66   1   8   -   -       -    -  31  6
                      19   621  91*  44.35   0   6   1  1/4     4.00  0  10  0

Obviously overall KP has a better average with one more century, and has proven himself in more varied conditions than Dhoni as I said, and hence why I'd probably choose him ahead of Dhoni. But on current form Dhoni does beat him averaging 16 more than KP!

Then how do you rate Hussey?

He is averaging nearly 80 (or 30 per innings more than Dhoni) at a strike-rate of 100.

As I said, Dhoni being ranked first is ludicrous

 

[social]

Is Ponting a better ODI batsman than Dhoni? Yes.

Statstically over the past 12 months has Ponting been a better ODI batsman than Dhoni? Possibly, but its definitely up for debate and Dhoni has been an asbolute machine in ODIs lately. Since the rankings are entirely based on statistics I hardly think its 'ludicrous'.

Then again you think Dravid's not a good ODI batsman so that puts your comment in perspective.

Sorry, I said that Dravid wouldnt make a World ODI team and would struggle to make the 2nd X1.

The latter is probably an exaggeration but he is a loooooooooooong way behind many other batsmen in this form of the game.

 

[adharcric]

Then how do you rate Hussey?

He is averaging nearly 80 (or 30 per innings more than Dhoni) at a strike-rate of 100.

As I said, Dhoni being ranked first is ludicrous

Perhaps because Dhoni has played more matches lately and played more match-winning innings lately while Hussey always remains not-out and hence the huge average? Perhaps because these rankings favor something that Dhoni has done lately over something that Hussey has done lately? Does it really matter? Most of us would probably rate Hussey ahead of Dhoni. Really, go read that thread DanielFullard started about people taking statistics and rankings too seriously. It's meant for you.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Speaking of Ricky Ponting and Kevin Pietersen, Dhoni is now ahead of both of them in the ICC ODI rankings. That's right, Mahendra Singh Dhoni is now ranked #1.

Rankings show form; nothing else. They mean little in the grand concept of the sport. More of a showpiece than anything else.

That said, I'd say Ponting is in better form than Dhoni.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Dhoni being no. 1 is so ludicrous it's not funny.

Ponting is miles ahead of any batsman in either form of the game.

Is that an Australian mile?

 

[adharcric]

Rankings show form; nothing else. They mean little in the grand concept of the sport. More of a showpiece than anything else.

That said, I'd say Ponting is in better form than Dhoni.

My bringing up a ranking doesn't necessarily imply that I believe it's an accurate reflection of the reality. Ponting > Dhoni without doubt, but I brought that ranking up because it really shows the impact Dhoni has had in his first year of international cricket.

 

[social]

My bringing up a ranking doesn't necessarily imply that I believe it's an accurate reflection of the reality. Ponting > Dhoni without doubt, but I brought that ranking up because it really shows the impact Dhoni has had in his first year of international cricket.

Unfortunately, there are obvious deficiencies in the system.

After all, we recently had a situation where Jacques Kallis reclaimed his mantle as the world's best all-rounder from Flintoff. Just how does that reflect current form or recent impact?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Unfortunately, there are obvious deficiencies in the system.

After all, we recently had a situation where Jacques Kallis reclaimed his mantle as the world's best all-rounder from Flintoff. Just how does that reflect current form or recent impact?

The allrounder ratings are significantly more flawed than the batting/bowling ratings. That's because it deals with more than one discipline. An excellent batting allrounder or bowling allrounder may therefore rank higher than an excellent allrounder.