***Official*** England in India

[kvemuri]

Personally i think he stood there dumbfounded that he was bowled by KP and I also think that people are blowing this waaay out of propotion, he throughly looked like a moron standing there and not doing anything, not even approaching the umps.

 

[Sanz]

he throughly looked like a moron standing there and not doing anything, not even approaching the umps.

He was afraid of getting run out.

 

[honestbharani]

Personally it just looked like he stood around so he could have a go at KP, I find it hard to believe he'd have hung around for as long he did and reacted the way he did if he was unsure that he was bowled or stumped. But I'm open to videos that show the standard cricket view for the duration and show otherwise, as opposed to highlights I've seen that cut to different cameras.

To be completely honest, it was a beauty of a delivery. Harbhajan had the line covered. He had covered the leg and middle stumps with his pads and had the bat out in front of off. The ball drifted away from him, pitched well outside off, turned past the outside edge of the bat (which was in line with the stumps) and then curved in to hit the top of off stump. Maybe had Murali or Saqlain bowled it, he would have walked. He was clearly dumbfounded there and maybe he just refused to believe KP could have bowled that kind of delivery.

 

[Golaxi]

...

Really, this discussion doesn't come down to how many runs you make. It has to do more with whether you get out to a genuinely good delivery or you throw away your wicket at a crucial juncture of your team's innings. Especially considering KP is England's only world-class batsman right now (Trescothick perhaps, Flintoff isn't), he shouldn't be consistently throwing his wicket away.

and what would you know?

i'd bet you'd say every batsmen in the Australian team is world class eah?

Flintoff is world class through and through bowler or batsmen.

His game has developed so much he has the capability to play any type of innings now, if you can see a technical weakness in him let me know cause i can spot one in all the Aussie batsmen straight up... They can't play reverse swing!

Don't even bother mentioning his bowling, your accusing him of his batting so lets talk about his batting soley, not his bowling. I'm quite happy too, are you?

it was a classic when he smashed himself to a century with one arm (that being his wrong arm) against OZ.

If you don't know, don't blab. I know it's instinctual to under rate other teams you don't know but if you don't know anything about him then don't blab!

even if you don't know how good he is you could have at least seen that he averaged over 40 last year.

and thats not even starting on the rest of the players you've just dismissed!

 

[Jono]

1) He's talking about ODI cricket. Why are you bringing up Flintoff's test knocks?
2) Whilst I believe Freddy IS a world class ODI batsman, you can't deny that in the past 18 months his performances have been very erratic. He hasn't been consistently brilliant like some other batsman. I'd take KP over Freddy in ODIs, and possibly Trescothick too.
3) Please, other than Freddy, KP or Tresco, list any world class ODI batsman England have.

 

[adharcric]

Exactly. Sorry, I do rate Flintoff as a borderline world-class ODI batsman but he has been far too reckless of late when his team has needed him. That won't do.
I'd take KP and Tres (havent seen him enough lately) over him as ODI batsmen too.
You're talking about Australia's batsmen and comparing their one-day class to that of England's batsman on the whole? That's beyond laughable.
In their primes, I'd take Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds and Hussey over any English batsman. Then comes KP. Then Tresco and Clarke and Flintoff.

 

[Scaly piscine]

At the moment I'd have KP above any Aussie batsman in one day stuff. Hussey's record is boosted by a lot of not outs, the other player (especially Gilchrist's) records don't come close.

 

[DanielFullard]

At the moment I'd have KP above any Aussie batsman in one day stuff. Hussey's record is boosted by a lot of not outs, the other player (especially Gilchrist's) records don't come close.

I'm with you there.

India struggling in the current conditions is further proof that there form in this series with England tells us very little about thier World Cup prospects. Thye are terrible for being "homers"

 

[adharcric]

I'm with you there.

India struggling in the Pakistani conditions is further proof that there form in this series with England tells us very little about thier World Cup prospects. Thye are terrible for being "homers"

India struggled in the Pakistani conditions in ODIs? Since when did this happen recently? We smashed them in Pakistan.

 

[DanielFullard]

India struggled in the Pakistani conditions in ODIs? Since when did this happen recently? We smashed them in Pakistan.

Sorry I got a bit mixed up there.....Ive amended it

 

[adharcric]

Sorry I got a bit mixed up there.....Ive amended it

Well still, you can't possibly cancel out 3-4 good series because of 1 charity match (no excuse, we should've done well here as well) in Abu Dhabi. That would be far too reactive.

 

[Golaxi]

Exactly. Sorry, I do rate Flintoff as a borderline world-class ODI batsman but he has been far too reckless of late when his team has needed him. That won't do.
I'd take KP and Tres (havent seen him enough lately) over him as ODI batsmen too.
You're talking about Australia's batsmen and comparing their one-day class to that of England's batsman on the whole? That's beyond laughable.
In their primes, I'd take Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds and Hussey over any English batsman. Then comes KP. Then Tresco and Clarke and Flintoff.

Ponting didn't exactly halt the rapid wicket decline when Harmi was zooming 93MPH yorkers down his throat in the ODI series but over time against Lesser bowlers he has so ill give him that, but I'd still take KP over him cause he can be a one man team at times, Ponting can't.

Gilchrist can be ruled out straight away as we all know his good ball weakness. Flintoff and KP over Symonds any day and im sure most non OZ people would agree. Hussey the same as Ponting really.

and remember that 99% of the time oz batsmen are hardly under any pressure contrary to the England batsmen who are pretty much all the time having to make scores in dire situations.

 

[marc71178]

At the moment I'd have KP above any Aussie batsman in one day stuff. Hussey's record is boosted by a lot of not outs, the other player (especially Gilchrist's) records don't come close.

Ponting for 1 is far better than KP.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Ponting for 1 is far better than KP.

65.50 average @ 98.41 strike rate (72.56 @ 99.23 if you ignore the mickey mouse ICC World XI stuff)
without a series average so far (bar the mickey mouse stuff) below 40

compared to

42.74 average @ 79.34 strike rate



Which one is far better again?

 

[marc71178]

Try the one who's played for x years (where x is a number bigger than 1)

 

[Scaly piscine]

Try the one who's played for x years (where x is a number bigger than 1)

Well Ganguly has played for a bit longer than Ponting, I suppose that means Ganguly is better than Ponting then.

You presumably being one of those that only judge a player after they've played 10 years - so we can give those waste of space Warwickshire players a good few games before we're allowed to say they're officially crap.

 

[Prince EWS]

3) Please, other than Freddy, KP or Tresco, list any world class ODI batsman England have.

You're forgetting the might of Ian Blackwell and Geraint Jones.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well Ganguly has played for a bit longer than Ponting, I suppose that means Ganguly is better than Ponting then.

Makes zero sense, seeing as Ganguly averages less than Ponting does, batted largely in a different position and has long passed his prime. The point made by Marc is a good one, because it indicates that Ponting has maintained a very good average over a long time. Pietersen hasn't as yet. Are you saying Hussey is better than Ponting too? Is he a better Test batsman than Lara, Dravid and Ponting?

Pietersen has played 30 ODIs in his career. He has scored 1179 runs @ 65.50 in that time, with 3 hundreds and 8 fifties. In the time since Pietersen's debut, Ponting has played 13 more games and batted 18 more times. He has 5 hundreds, 11 fifties and very respectable average of 46.92.

There's not really much of a comparison between the two players and it's virtually impossible to back an assertion that Pietersen is better than a batsman who has averaged over 40 for such a long period. Pietersen has had a good start to his career, but his average after 15 ODIs was 133.60 and now it's 65.50. It's basically cut in half after 15 more games. You certainly can't use a career average to back this particular point.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

At the moment I'd have KP above any Aussie batsman in one day stuff. Hussey's record is boosted by a lot of not outs, the other player (especially Gilchrist's) records don't come close.

On the basis of what?

Last 10 ODIs:

Pietersen: 467 runs @ 46.70, 0x100, 5x50
Ponting: 532 runs @ 59.11, 2x100, 3x50

Last 15 ODIs:

Pietersen: 511 runs @ 39.30, 0x100, 5x50
Ponting: 744 runs @ 53.14, 2x100, 5x50

Last 5 ODIs(!):

Pietersen: 291 runs @ 58.20, 0x100, 3x50
Ponting: 385 runs @ 96.25, 2x100, 1x50

 

[adharcric]

You guys who are mindlessly supporting the English batsmen here and rating them above the Aussie batsmen, just stop. You're embarrassing yourselves.