***Official*** England in India

[tooextracool]

England
A Strauss
M Prior
V Solanki / I Bell
K Pietersen (if fit, otherwise Bell and Solanki both play)
A Flintoff*
P Collingwood
G Jones+
I Blackwell
G Batty / L Plunkett (depending on conditions)
M Hoggard
J Anderson

id much rather go for batty than Plunkett(who i hope doesnt play for England for at least a few more years). The England bowling has been nothing short of rubbish in this series- i still cant believe that none of the England bowlers realised that the best way to bowl at Goa was to bowl slower off cutters given how much the ball was turning on that wicket.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

Agreed. Something tells me that Uthappa got the nod over Dhawan not only because of his knock in the Challengers last year, but also because Dravid is from Karnataka and he may have given it a little push. Fair enough though, both are talented youngsters.

Nabi should be given a run in the A team, but he really needs to be given special attention in domestic cricket first, which means regular games in Duleep, Deodhar (too late for that now) and especially the Challenger Trophy later this year.

YoMahesh could have been picked in place of SS Paul, as i dont see Paul making into the team for sure. Sodhi is a very surprising choice. Bangar or JP Yadav could have got the nod ahead of Sodhi.

 

[adharcric]

YoMahesh could have been picked in place of SS Paul, as i dont see Paul making into the team for sure. Sodhi is a very surprising choice. Bangar or JP Yadav could have got the nod ahead of Sodhi.

The same way, I don't see Bangar or Yadav making the national team either. They're tried options who aren't on the young side.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

The same way, I don't see Bangar or Yadav making the national team either. They're tried options who aren't on the young side.

i agree i am a bit biased about Bangar. But i definitely feel he could have been utilised more effectively in the ODIs especially.
But how about Pravin Kumar in place of Sodhi, if you want to have an untried all-rounder?

 

[Arjun]

• Batty– We all know he was one of the targets in Brian Lara's 400 not out in Antigua, and hasn't done anything special, in any of the matches he's played. Pace or swing is England's main strength, so they should pick their best bowlers, even if they're seamers.
• SS Paul– He lasts very long and can hold a line and length, and even move the ball well off the pitch. The problem is typical- lack of pace. You've go bowlers of that style who can score a lot more than him.
• JP Yadav and Sanjay Bangar– Both fit a specific role in the Indian side. They can bowl at least eight overs a match and then score a chunk of runs at seven/eight. One such bowler has to play so that the pressure on top six is reduced, as also on the strike bowlers.
• Uthappa/Gambhir– Bizarre choice. He's still raw, and has barely finished a season or two. Gambhir has been around longer, and has shown signs of potential, and more importantly, he's built partnerships at the top of the order at a quick pace, against frontline bowlers. Uthappa's claim to fame was that century, but he got some 23 runs off one Suresh Raina over. Raina is a part-time mediocre pie-thrower who may never bowl again after that match. He's not proven against strikers. There is a problem was well with opening in Tests, so they should have had the same opener in Tests as well as ODI's.
• Abid Nabi– He deserves a chance at some level, be it Duleep or Deodhar, or even straight into the A team. He's a rare bowler, given his pace. The problem is the congested pace scene in the North. You've got the decently fast swing bowler Ashish Nehra, then the slower but crafty Amit Bhandari, then Punjab's swing bowler Gagandeep Singh, then Haryana's Joginder Sharma (more for his batting ability) and now a giant named Ishant Sharma from Delhi. Where's the place for a J&K youngster? He can consider a shift to Railways or Hyderabad.

 

[Arjun]

i agree i am a bit biased about Bangar. But i definitely feel he could have been utilised more effectively in the ODIs especially.
But how about Pravin Kumar in place of Sodhi, if you want to have an untried all-rounder?

Sodhi hardly ever bowls and is a very conservative opening batsman now. They should have had Bangar or Pravin Kumar (a younger and more productive replacement for Bangar) and Joginder Sharma in the A team.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

• Batty– We all know he was one of the targets in Brian Lara's 400 not out in Antigua, and hasn't done anything special, in any of the matches he's played. Pace or swing is England's main strength, so they should pick their best bowlers, even if they're seamers.
• SS Paul– He lasts very long and can hold a line and length, and even move the ball well off the pitch. The problem is typical- lack of pace. You've go bowlers of that style who can score a lot more than him.
• JP Yadav and Sanjay Bangar– Both fit a specific role in the Indian side. They can bowl at least eight overs a match and then score a chunk of runs at seven/eight. One such bowler has to play so that the pressure on top six is reduced, as also on the strike bowlers.
• Uthappa/Gambhir– Bizarre choice. He's still raw, and has barely finished a season or two. Gambhir has been around longer, and has shown signs of potential, and more importantly, he's built partnerships at the top of the order at a quick pace, against frontline bowlers. Uthappa's claim to fame was that century, but he got some 23 runs off one Suresh Raina over. Raina is a part-time mediocre pie-thrower who may never bowl again after that match. He's not proven against strikers. There is a problem was well with opening in Tests, so they should have had the same opener in Tests as well as ODI's.
• Abid Nabi– He deserves a chance at some level, be it Duleep or Deodhar, or even straight into the A team. He's a rare bowler, given his pace. The problem is the congested pace scene in the North. You've got the decently fast swing bowler Ashish Nehra, then the slower but crafty Amit Bhandari, then Punjab's swing bowler Gagandeep Singh, then Haryana's Joginder Sharma (more for his batting ability) and now a giant named Ishant Sharma from Delhi. Where's the place for a J&K youngster? He can consider a shift to Railways or Hyderabad.

Regarding the openers, S Vidyut, IMO, is way ahead of all three Gambhir/Uthappa/Dhawan.
He had an oustanding time in the Ranji knockouts, even if you have to go back to the NKP trophy, he played a match winning knock of 86 for the India seniors. I agree he does not bowl that often these days, but he could well be in the team on his batting strength alone.
It is good that atleast he has found a place in the "A" team. Dhawan and Uthappa have a long way to go, both had had a very ordinary season.

 

[Sanz]

Thats still questionable IMO. Simon Jones was reported to have reverse swung deliveries at 50 mph. Obviously the ball was probably a roughed up more than a usual old ball, but the fact is that its definetly possible. perhaps this might imply that someday we might see spinners getting the ball to reverse?

It is possible to reverse swing the ball @ 50 mph, but according to Imran khan there is no advantage to the bowler then, because batsman can pick it very early.

So the question is - how effective was Jones' reverse swing @ 50mph, did he take any wickets, did he trouble the batsmen etc etc ?

Now - knowing the expert you think of yourself, I know there is a good chance that you are going to declare Imran's opinion as rubbish.

 

[Sanz]

ramkumar_gr - You are on a roll here. Three posts without mentioning Kaif and describing how useless he is, that is something you should be congratulated for.

 

[Jono]

Don't remind him

Wonder where he was after Kaif saved India's butt in the first test!

 

[honestbharani]

I will be very surprised if INdia don't go in with 5 bowlers tomorrow. It is, if anything, hotter in Kochi at this time of the year than it was at Goa. India needs all the bowling options it can get. And of course, the Great ONe can score a hundred or a double if required.

 

[Jono]

Why is AA getting a spot ahead of RP Singh? I know people are talking of AA taking up VR Singh's future spot, but what has RP Singh done wrong in ODI cricket?

Mind you, this is all a good thing. So many up and coming seam bowlers. Sreesanth just needs to fix up his ODI recprd as his ER is far too high at the moment, but I believe he has the talent to do it.

 

[tooextracool]

• Batty– We all know he was one of the targets in Brian Lara's 400 not out in Antigua, and hasn't done anything special, in any of the matches he's played. Pace or swing is England's main strength, so they should pick their best bowlers, even if they're seamers.

do you think plunkett, kabir and mahmood to be better bowlers than batty? at best they are all even, and given the conditions id opt for batty.

 

[tooextracool]

It is possible to reverse swing the ball @ 50 mph, but according to Imran khan there is no advantage to the bowler then, because batsman can pick it very early.

So the question is - how effective was Jones' reverse swing @ 50mph, did he take any wickets, did he trouble the batsmen etc etc ?

Now - knowing the expert you think of yourself, I know there is a good chance that you are going to declare Imran's opinion as rubbish.

i dont think it was done in an actual match, cant see why anyone who can bowl reverse at 85mph would bowl at 50 mph in a live game. i think it was merely an experiment that was conducted.
As far as Imran is concerned, do you really think that Reverse swing at 50 mph is absolutely useless? granted it isnt going to be deadly, but any movement in the air or off the pitch makes a bowler better off than he would have been without it. as far as being able to pick it very early is concerned, reverse swing is in itself late swing, so its not something that swings as soon as it leaves the hand. the question i ask though is that for a spinner(who else will bowl at 50 mph?) would it not be a useful asset to be able to reverse the ball as well as turn it? I'd say reverse is a far more potent form of drift.

 

[adharcric]

Why is AA getting a spot ahead of RP Singh? I know people are talking of AA taking up VR Singh's future spot, but what has RP Singh done wrong in ODI cricket?

Mind you, this is all a good thing. So many up and coming seam bowlers. Sreesanth just needs to fix up his ODI recprd as his ER is far too high at the moment, but I believe he has the talent to do it.

RP Singh is a promising seamer but he's sprayed the ball around in his last two matches (including the warm-up) and Sreesanth seems more talented. Why AA is there, well, I'll keep thinking about that one.

 

[BoyBrumby]

i dont think it was done in an actual match, cant see why anyone who can bowl reverse at 85mph would bowl at 50 mph in a live game. i think it was merely an experiment that was conducted.
As far as Imran is concerned, do you really think that Reverse swing at 50 mph is absolutely useless? granted it isnt going to be deadly, but any movement in the air or off the pitch makes a bowler better off than he would have been without it. as far as being able to pick it very early is concerned, reverse swing is in itself late swing, so its not something that swings as soon as it leaves the hand. the question i ask though is that for a spinner(who else will bowl at 50 mph?) would it not be a useful asset to be able to reverse the ball as well as turn it? I'd say reverse is a far more potent form of drift.

Slowest bowler to reverse it that I've seen was AB de Villiers. In the test where Gayle scored his triple-ton he bowled a few overs & definitely got some reverse at about 70-73mph. IIRC he picked up a couple of wickets too.

 

[tooextracool]

Slowest bowler to reverse it that I've seen was AB de Villiers. In the test where Gayle scored his triple-ton he bowled a few overs & definitely got some reverse at about 70-73mph. IIRC he picked up a couple of wickets too.

indeed, too many people seem to think that reverse only happens with 85+ mph bowling, yet bowlers like Hoggard, Mcgrath and even Pathan to an extent have disproved that theory by getting the ball to swing bowling below 80 mph. Reverse swing really only depends on how badly the ball has deteriorated.

 

[Sanz]

indeed, too many people seem to think that reverse only happens with 85+ mph bowling, yet bowlers like Hoggard, Mcgrath and even Pathan to an extent have disproved that theory by getting the ball to swing bowling below 80 mph. Reverse swing really only depends on how badly the ball has deteriorated.

Well I (I think) have been able to reverse swing even with a taped tennis ball, This is not something I can do @ will, but it just happens sometimes and trust me I dont bowl anywhere above 60-65 mph.

Reverse swing does happen @ lower speed but it is far easier to pick up the yorkers bowled @ 70-73 mph than when it is bowled @ 85+ mph. Irfan, Mcgrath, Hoggard may bowl reverse Swing, but how many times they pick up wickets with those reverse swing balls ?

 

[Sanz]

As far as Imran is concerned, do you really think that Reverse swing at 50 mph is absolutely useless?

Yes.

 

[kvemuri]

Uthappa is much more attacking than Dhawan and it shows in their strike rates, Dhawan has a strike rate of 76 whereas Robin is 94. May be that was the deciding factor.

Every article that I have been reading today reflects Uthappa to be a strokeplayer, I agree with you, I think that has been the driving factor in drafting him in.