***Official*** England in India

[silentstriker]

Oh yes, because of course its much easier to take wickets and be a good fast bowler in India than outside the sub-continent.

So let me get this straight, when a batsman performs in the sub-continent its "Well he's only done well in the sub-continent where heaps of runs are scored and pitches have less bounce", and then when a fast bowler performs there its "Well, he's bowled well in the sub-continent, but can he bowl better outside of it... you know... in that place where much less runs are scored and there is more help for fast bowlers!".

Its time people start being consistent when talking about sub-continental pitches.

Pathan is a very good ODI opening bowler, he's not a great ODI bowler, he's not a very good test bowler, but he is a very good ODI bowler and he's been doing what he does for over 2 years now, and he's won India many games with his new-ball break throughs. Since when did you have to be a quick bowler to be a good ODI bowler? Speed has nothing to do with it.

As you could probably tell, I was grasping for reasons at that point.

 

[Nate]

Can someone please explain to me what these slower-swinging deliveries were like? Normally slower balls don`t swing.

 

[Sanz]

For last 4 ODIs I am gonna root for England, with Marc's blessings of course.

 

[SJS]

Can someone please explain to me what these slower-swinging deliveries were like? Normally slower balls don`t swing.

Thats not true. A ball does swing at slower speeds also - for normal swing. However for slower speed the swing starts much earlier thus you have the slower bowlers swinging the balls hugely in a banana curve starting from almost as the ball leaves the hand. Good batsmen are able to deal with it since they can see it.

Reverse swing for unknown reasons (for me at least) does not seem to swing below a certain critical speed.

For normal swing, in fact, super fast deliveries dont swing or swing very late in their journey to the batsman's end when they have lost a bit of speed. Needless to say, this makes them very difficult to play.

 

[Dasa]

Thats not true. A ball does swing at slower speeds also - for normal swing. However for slower speed the swing starts much earlier thus you have the slower bowlers swinging the balls hugely in a banana curve starting from almost as the ball leaves the hand. Good batsmen are able to deal with it since they can see it.

Reverse swing for unknown reasons (for me at least) does not seem to swing below a certain critical speed.

For normal swing, in fact, super fast deliveries dont swing or swing very late in their journey to the batsman's end when they have lost a bit of speed. Needless to say, this makes them very difficult to play.

I think what Nnanden meant was a fast bowlers slower ball (which most bowlers seem to bowl using either an off-spin hand movement, or out of the back of the hand) doesn't usually swing as the seam is scrambled.

 

[Jono]

The seam isn't scrambled if you do it with a split-fingered action though.

 

[adharcric]

Haha, don't worry. I'm originally from India, and when I see "Jhunjhunwala", I can only think "WTF?, I thought that was a curry dish".

Well, you clearly don't have a clue about recent Indian domestic cricket. He's an emerging, young batsman from Bengal.

 

[adharcric]

Could someone please tell me who these unpronounceables are?!

I've managed to get rostered the India World Cup Top 40 and can manage 25 reasonably, but then it all gets a bit ropey.

better off getting educated about indian prospects before trying to make a 40.
dhawan .. u19 player of the tournament few yrs ago, uthappa .. scored a ton in the challengers last yr, selected for national squad, sharma .. highly rated u19 star, jhunjhunwala .. rising batsman for bengal, venugopal/chawla/karthik/rpsingh .. you should know, vr singh .. 2nd fastest in india (after nabi, before patel, i think)

now go make your 40

 

[BoyBrumby]

The seam isn't scrambled if you do it with a split-fingered action though.

After watching the highlights of the 3rd ODI yesterday it looked to me as if Pathan's slower ball was bowled as an off-cutter (or the left-armer's equiv, anyway). I could be wrong tho.

Certainly effective however it was bowled.

 

[shankar]

After watching the highlights of the 3rd ODI yesterday it looked to me as if Pathan's slower ball was bowled as an off-cutter (or the left-armer's equiv, anyway). I could be wrong tho.

Certainly effective however it was bowled.

I think he had 2 variations of it - 1 off-cutter (the one to Blackwell) and one that just held it's line (the one to Strauss).

 

[Jono]

After watching the highlights of the 3rd ODI yesterday it looked to me as if Pathan's slower ball was bowled as an off-cutter (or the left-armer's equiv, anyway). I could be wrong tho.

Certainly effective however it was bowled.

Oh he definitely uses the 'off cutter' style, no doubt. Just saying I find it best to use the split fingered style (When I'm mucking around in the nets, only bowl leggies in match-time) when I bowled my pace and it does still swing as the seam is still reasonably upright.

 

[silentstriker]

Well, you clearly don't have a clue about recent Indian domestic cricket. He's an emerging, young batsman from Bengal.

No, I don't. I only know the major domestic players, I don't follow it closely.

 

[honestbharani]

The A team is a good selection. Badrinath is someone who has been in red hot form really, so he is not a bad pick either and the rest basically picked themselves. And I think it is quite right that they are not allowing someone like Nabi into OD cricket so early,esp. at a place like Abu Dhabi.

 

[adharcric]

The A team is a good selection. Badrinath is someone who has been in red hot form really, so he is not a bad pick either and the rest basically picked themselves. And I think it is quite right that they are not allowing someone like Nabi into OD cricket so early,esp. at a place like Abu Dhabi.

Agreed. Something tells me that Uthappa got the nod over Dhawan not only because of his knock in the Challengers last year, but also because Dravid is from Karnataka and he may have given it a little push. Fair enough though, both are talented youngsters.

Nabi should be given a run in the A team, but he really needs to be given special attention in domestic cricket first, which means regular games in Duleep, Deodhar (too late for that now) and especially the Challenger Trophy later this year.

 

[adharcric]

Preferred XIs: 4th ODI at Cochin

England
A Strauss
M Prior
V Solanki / I Bell
K Pietersen (if fit, otherwise Bell and Solanki both play)
A Flintoff*
P Collingwood
G Jones+
I Blackwell
G Batty / L Plunkett (depending on conditions)
M Hoggard
J Anderson

India
V Sehwag
R Uthappa
R Dravid*
Y Singh
M Kaif
S Raina
MS Dhoni+
I Pathan
R Powar
H Singh
M Patel

 

[SJS]

Agreed. Something tells me that Uthappa got the nod over Dhawan not only because of his knock in the Challengers last year, but also because Dravid is from Karnataka and he may have given it a little push.

I would like to discount that [possibility.

Kumble is not just from Karnataka but the oldest and closest mate that Dravid is known to have. That doesnt seem to have affected Dravid's choice of spinners for ODI's though there have been occasions when almost every one has talked of Kumble being brought back since Harbhajan was not bringing results.

Dravid is hardly the guy to show the slightest inclination for showing anything but concern for team results.

 

[adharcric]

I would like to discount that [possibility.

Kumble is not just from Karnataka but the oldest and closest mate that Dravid is known to have. That doesnt seem to have affected Dravid's choice of spinners for ODI's though there have been occasions when almost every one has talked of Kumble being brought back since Harbhajan was not bringing results.

Dravid is hardly the guy to show the slightest inclination for showing anything but concern for team results.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way accusing Dravid of bias. I really admire the guy for his professional, unselfish attitude. I'm just saying that because Uthappa is a local boy (from Karnataka), Dravid may have a better idea about his talent and thus recommended him to the selectors. Dhawan has outperformed Uthappa domestically ever since that Challenger Series, so that's why I'd say it was a close call between the two. The fact that Uthappa showed his stuff in front of Chappell and Dravid last year may have carried more weight than what has been going on in domestic matches since then.

The selectors were clearly deciding between these two as well, as we see Dhawan and Uthappa opening for India A now.

 

[Sanz]

Uthappa is much more attacking than Dhawan and it shows in their strike rates, Dhawan has a strike rate of 76 whereas Robin is 94. May be that was the deciding factor.

 

[Nate]

I think what Nnanden meant was a fast bowlers slower ball (which most bowlers seem to bowl using either an off-spin hand movement, or out of the back of the hand) doesn't usually swing as the seam is scrambled.

Spot on.

And thanks SJS.

 

[tooextracool]

Reverse swing for unknown reasons (for me at least) does not seem to swing below a certain critical speed.

Thats still questionable IMO. Simon Jones was reported to have reverse swung deliveries at 50 mph. Obviously the ball was probably a roughed up more than a usual old ball, but the fact is that its definetly possible. perhaps this might imply that someday we might see spinners getting the ball to reverse?